To ignore the upstairs neighbour banging on his floor about crying baby

[MrsHende]

Baby hates getting dressed and usually screams her way through the 5-6 minute process. Twice our upstairs neighbours has banged on their floor, presumably because of the noise. Both times were after 7.30 and before 8am, once this morning and once last week, on a week day.

Who IBU?

(My mum thinks I should change the baby in a different room, possibly the best solution for everyone's blood pressure!)

OP As a matter of curiosity is it a man, a woman, or both of a couple?

Marynary I agree that changing our attitude to stressors can help us cope with them to some extent, but reaction to noise is not always within conscious control. When you're woken in night (and already exhausted from sleep-deprivation) it's hard to change how you feel about the noise. If the child's parents seem unsympathetic/uncaring, it's even more difficult to react with tolerance and patience.

If you don't have a medical condition that makes you less able to tolerate it then it is within your control as much as it is in everyone else's control to tolerate it. You need to accept it as part of life rather than letting it get under your skin. The noise will only be more irritating if you start getting annoyed/angry about it.

My error, the OP does mention it in the thread title.

Sorry for being smug if you had responded with that in mind.

From what I can gather there is a man and two women living upstairs to the OP, and the man is the one whose bedroom is above where she changes the baby.
I think it must be very difficult for people with medical conditions and I can sympathise, but the problem is, a couple can't be evicted because their baby cries and it's quite daft and unrealistic to say people with kids shouldn't move into flats and terraced houses on the off chance that a neighbour might have such a condition.
I would hope that if in social housing, someone with a medical condition could be moved to more suitable accommodation for their needs but unfortunately it's not always as simple as that. It is just the chance you take when you move into a flat, and people will never reject a flat if they need one just because their potential neighbour might be sensitive to noise.
For people who just find it annoying, bad luck. Lots of people find it annoying, and lots of people experience it. I have no sympathy or respect for people who bang on walls as a form of complaining.

Jemima I really sympathise with what you went through. It's horrible when you're being woken 5x night by a screaming baby and I think unless you've lived through that in a flat with thin walls, it's hard to understand just how disruptive, exhausting and soul-destroying it is. I remember crying over my papers in frustration night after night because (even with earplugs) the sound of next door's screaming baby and noisy kids made it impossible to finish my dissertation, let alone get more than 2hours sleep at a time.
I do think it's irresponsible and selfish to move into this type of flat when you have a baby who screams 5x night. You know the baby will wake all the neighbours, and is likely to do so for a good 6months at least.

In flats with thin walls you can usually hear when the parent is attending to the baby. My neighbour often let hers scream and cry for a good 30-40mins before entering his room. I could always tell where she was in the flat by her footsteps. When she did go to the baby she rarely walked around with him, just spoke to him and sometimes shouted at him to 'shut the fuck up'

I don't think you need to have a medical condition or be particularly noise-sensitive to find a screaming baby stressful.
Lots of factors can make people less tolerant of noise at certain times, whether its sleep-deprivation, work stress, anxiety, a migraine, ear-infection or even a bad headache. I have morning-sickness at the moment and find noise makes it worse, even my own DC shouting can make me feel dizzy and trigger severe vomiting.

I don't think you need to have a medical condition or be particularly noise-sensitive to find a screaming baby stressful.

Everyone find screaming babies stressful though particularly the parents. Your experiences are not unique and it is ridiculous to state on a website that mainly includes parents that they don't understand just how disruptive, exhausting and soul-destroying a crying baby is. Of course people know what it is like. It is just that the majority of people accept that it is part of life and something they have to deal because the world doesn't revolve around them.

jemima and theboat whether you have a medical condition or not: if your neighbour's baby cries and the walls are thin you are going to hear the crying. It is just too bad. You will have to put up with it. You might as well do so with a good grace because you have no choice.

I can't believe some people are interpreting a baby's screams as being done on purpose or somehow deliberately to annoy them.

'Everyone find screaming babies stressful though particularly the parents'
Yes... but when you decide to have a baby you expect to feel stressed, exhausted and suffer sleep-deprivation. You don't expect to feel like this just because you live in a flat!
Having a baby is a huge responsibility but it's a choice you make, just as you have a choice where to live with the baby. People in flats have as much right as anyone else to sleep, study, work and enjoy their home, which is why IMO it's very self-centred and thoughtless to have a baby in a badly-soundproofed flat when you know you will inflict sleep deprivation on the people living around you.

Yes... but when you decide to have a baby you expect to feel stressed, exhausted and suffer sleep-deprivation. You don't expect to feel like this just because you live in a flat!

Whether or not they chose to have children is irrelevant to the question of whether people know what it is like to be kept awake by a baby.

Having a baby is a huge responsibility but it's a choice you make, just as you have a choice where to live with the baby. People in flats have as much right as anyone else to sleep, study, work and enjoy their home, which is why IMO it's very self-centred and thoughtless to have a baby in a badly-soundproofed flat when you know you will inflict sleep deprivation on the people living around you.

And arguably it's self centred to think that people who live in flats shouldn't have babies. If you live in a flat or practically anywhere that is not in the middle of nowhere, there is always the possibility that there will be a certain amount of noise from a baby or young children. Most people accept that and learn to get on with life without getting too worked up about it.

Again theboatisleaking I think your views on choice are rather rigid, people have children in less than ideal circumstances, pregnancies are often unplanned and there may be a whole raft of reasons why people don't have any choice but to live in a flat with a young baby.

Sometimes families end up living in flats without planning to due to unforeseen circumstances, for example relationship breakdowns, fleeing abusive partners, being made redundant and therefore losing their house, leaving them no choice but to take a council flat in a built up area, as an example. Your opinion that people with babies shouldn't live in flats is just that - your opinion. If it was a widely accepted or reasonable opinion it would be against the law, and it isn't.

'Whether or not they chose to have children is irrelevant to the question of whether people know what it is like to be kept awake by a baby'

But there is a big difference between being kept awake by your own baby and being kept awake by someone else's. With my DC the sleep deprivation felt worthwhile, part of the package of motherhood, plus I was on mat-leave so could nap during day. You also have more control and input when it's your own, you can walk around with them, sing, rock them, try different things to soothe them. When it's neighbours baby you're effectively trapped, unable to take any action. It becomes an infuriating noise that prevents you sleeping or getting on with your life. When you know you have to get up early and have a full day of seminars/work/exams ahead, being kept awake all night by a baby has very different implications.

I appreciate ppl sometimes find themselves in circumstances where they have no choice but to take a flat. But barring exceptional circumstances, most ppl do plan their pregnancies and do have a choice about where to live. I have lots of friends with children but don't know anyone whose only option was a council flat (I know it happens but i guess it's quite rare).
And not all flats are badly soundproofed... we once lived in a flat in a converted mill that had v.good soundproofing and thick walls, neighbours had a toddler but all we ever heard was occasional crying (very muffled and not loud enough to wake anyone).

if your neighbour's baby cries and the walls are thin you are going to hear the crying. It is just too bad. You will have to put up with it.

Andrewofgg - I'm fortunate enough to have a detached house so don't have these issues on a day to day basis, but when a similar issue arose when I was on holiday I ended up having to sleep in my hire car. I can't 'put up with it', the pain a screaming baby causes me is just too severe.

Its easy to say that its just something you have to put up with, the reality is best described as torture...I'm glad you don't understand because it means you've never experienced it (and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!).

barring exceptional circumstances, most ppl do plan their pregnancies and do have a choice about where to live. I...don't know anyone whose only option was a council flat (I know it happens but i guess it's quite rare)... we once lived in a flat in a converted mill that had v.good soundproofing and thick walls

With each post you come across as more and more ignorant. Have you lead a really sheltered life?

You don't know anyone who had an unplanned pregnancy and has to live in a flat not of their choosing? So it must be exceptionally rare for that to happen??

Yeeeessss, if only there were more lovely old converted mills for people to 'just move to' when their unplanned babies make too much noise

I don't know what world you live in, but it's not as 'rare' as you might think. Many people I know personally and know of have limited choices and have found themselves in a situation beyond their control, where beggars can't be choosers and have had the choice between a council flat in a block surrounded by drug dealers or being homeless. In some areas you are lucky to get a flat at all.
We all understand your point about the difference between noise from your own child and noise from other peoples, you don't need to make it again. I think what pp on here are trying to say is that pretty much every adult in the world has experienced a crying baby before they had their own, so they know what it is like.
You seem to expect everyone to feel desperately sorry for you but don't seem to realise that you actually are very lucky to have so much control and choice in your life, when many many people don't.

It becomes an infuriating noise that prevents you sleeping or getting on with your life. When you know you have to get up early and have a full day of seminars/work/exams ahead, being kept awake all night by a baby has very different implications.

It becomes an infuriating noise that prevents you sleeping or getting on with your life if you let it affect you in that way. Most people would just decide that babies cry, it is just one of those things, get ear plugs etc. You on the other hand appear to be someone who would decide that the neighbour had no right to have a baby and get annoyed and worked up about it and that in itself would affect your sleep and life. It is your attitude to the noise which causes the problem rather than the noise itself.

'You seem to expect everyone to feel desperately sorry for you but don't seem to realise that you actually are very lucky to have so much control and choice in your life'

I don't expect sympathy for myself (my days of living in flats are thankfully long gone) but I do expect ppl to have a bit more empathy and respect for neighbours disturbed by babies in flats.

The 'choice and control' I have over my life is not a result of luck but years of studying, hard work and responsible saving. Our first DC was unplanned but we managed, despite having 1 part-time salary between us. We waited years before having more kids as we wanted to be in a good financial position, and yes this does give you more choice.
If someone wants to raise a baby in a council flat and claim benefits, that's their choice, but many people consider this a very irresponsible life choice, unless it's a result of extreme circumstances. I don't think being careless with contraception then saying you have 'no choice' but to accept a council flat deserves much sympathy. Babies are a big responsibility and the majority of people plan ahead well in advance.

theboat not everyone has the opportunities and support, you seem to think studying and saving is an option for everyone. It isn't, even in this day and age, many people grow up in depraved circumstances and survive hand to mouth. Unplanned pregnancies happen, and occasionally hard working, careful responsible people lose everything they worked for. Coming out of a recession like we are, stories like that aren't rare.
Honestly my nana would have such a laugh if she could read this. She raised her babies in slums, living in the pockets of other families around her and not a second of peace and quiet, in an age when the pill didn't exist and abortion was illegal. My grandad worked 16 hour days 6 days a week, and they survived. The least of their problems was the sounds of babies next door crying!
Your views seem to be very centred around your own experiences. Maybe if you could see a wider picture you wouldn't be so intolerant to those around you. You can't expect comments like 'people in flats shouldn't have babies' and calling parents irresponsible and selfish to do so to go unchallenged. Welcome to the real world. If only it were as simple as you think it is.

I agree with Marynary!

While were on the subject of choosing, may I also point out you also had a choice when you moved into a flat with paper thin walls?

I am baffled reading this....

Babies cry, familes live in flats, hardly breaking news is it?

I've lived in two flats pre DC, and one post, and every single block had young kids.
I thought it was part and parcel really, flats and young kids?

I don't suffer from Noise sensitivity, it sounds awful. No pun intended
But if it causes genuine pain, then how is an apology from the parents going to change anything? (Genuine question)

However the poster complaining about the selfish parents who lived in the flat before they moved in, is ridiculous, and hypocritical. You should have checked out who the neighbours were before you moved in, if you have these issues.
I'm assuming they still lived there when you moved out? I imagine a few glasses were raised to your departure, bet they were absolutely euphoric when you left.

And the one referring to the baby as a 'thing' Here love

Well I'll admit that I planned a baby whilst living in a flat. Only one neighbour and they had a baby before us who used to have night terrors which did wake me up relatively often.

However I'd always thought the soundproofing wasn't bad until the two spoilt, selfish single men moved in. Then I really heard our neighbours and funnily enough cared that little bit less if our baby cried in the night.

The 'choice and control' I have over my life is not a result of luck but years of studying, hard work and responsible saving

Really?

I'm assuming from the content of your posts that you're white, middle class, that you don't have parents who were in prison or on drugs or mentally ill?

You really can't see how being born into a position of relative privilege wasn't the stroke of luck that enabled all your 'responsible choices' since?

And I write this as someone who has had a very privileged life myself. I've never known poverty or hardship. But it doesn't take a massive leap of the imagination to comprehend that hard work and savings are not the only things separating sink estate kids or single mothers from a cosy mill house flat with wall insulation.

Read a goddamn book or something.