To get the Dad of the girl DS bit to tell him off?

[RaisinBread]

Name change as this is probably quite obvious who I am with the details that will follow but have been on MN for 7 years.

I'm at my whits end with DS (age 7) and I have no idea how to punish him for this behaviour. Backstory-

There is a new girl in his class he has a small class of just over 20 with about 15 boys. Now for the second time in just over two weeks he has been violent towards this girl. The first time I was pulled over at collection because the new girl, lets call her Polly had shoved ds (Polly denies this) So Ds bit her hand. He has never bit anyone before in his life. After the incident the teacher said he had a panic attack and needed a lot of calming down. I suspect I think he knew he had done something horrendous and didn't know how to cope with it. The teacher told me that Polly's Dad was extremely angry.

When we got home I talked through why it was wrong, talked through reversed situations asked how would have felt had it been him that had been bit, if someone else had bit his little sister or me etc. etc. We talked through what would have been the right decision after the shove (telling a teacher). He was told that the behaviour was absolutely unacceptable and that I was very angry and upset. He was then sent up to his room until dinner, made a sorry card for Polly and then had a bath and was told to go to bed. I didn't scream or shout at him just had stern words and made it clear that it was to never happen again.

Now ever since the biting Polly's Dad has been giving me slightly dirty looks on the school run, I just smile as I did politely prior to the incident (as you do when you pass people on the school run). He reluctantly had to hold open a gate for me the other day as I had DD in pushchair but didn't talk to me. I have a a clear impression that he doesn't like me or my son after the biting incident. I haven't bought up the subject with him as I don't think it would achieve anything and I'm not going to apologise for my son's behaviour as I feel It's DS's job to apologise to Polly which he did in person several times and in writing. And he was punished in school by missing his playtime (not that I think this actually achieves anything)

Now to today. When I picked up Ds I was told that he had hit Polly in the stomach because she was talking in line. When I asked him why he just says he doesn't know why, and got very upset and cried. I didn't leave it and kept on asking why and repeating that "I don't know?" isn't an acceptable answer. I have no idea what to do, he just shuts down and won't talk about it.
We talked through why it was wrong to hit and talked through scenarios, of what other people would have done to solve Polly's chatting (like the teacher) and obviously none of them involved hitting. He's been sent up to his room.

And now I have no idea what to do. DS is a bright boy he really enjoys school and tends to be quite focused in class and works really hard. He seems to find maths and spellings easy has started to really enjoy reading and generally does well in class. So he isn't lashing out out of frustration from struggling with his learning.

He has friends and I would say is popular within the school. So not lonely. He's never lashed out at another child out of the school setting (bar his brother). He doesn't play violent computer games, or watch violent films. I would say the most violent thing he watches would be Ninja Turtle, Tom & Jerry and Totally Spies.
All is well at home DH & I have been together for 10 yrs and are happy so he's not picking up on anything negative going on at home.
He loves his baby sister to bits and is very helpful at home with her. He scraps with his younger brother 5 at times. Which they are both pulled up for. So all in all nothing I can think that would be linked to his violent outbursts.

I am at loss as to how to stop him lashing out at this girl as he is more than aware that his behaviour is wrong and unacceptable. I can't prevent it from happening at school as I am not there to parent him and make sure he makes the right choices. That's down to him and the school. I am now thinking that if common sense and empathy for Polly isn't stopping him maybe fear will?

As Polly's Dad is fuming over the situation would IBU to get ask him to tell off DS (in the presence of a teacher) as I think this might install a bit of fear and get him to stop and think in future or just stay clear of Polly.
As talking it through really isn't working and I'm not going to shout at him because I'm not actually angry just very frustrated.

But talking in line is something most 7 year olds would do occasionally, even if they knew the school rules. It's not for a child to enforce rules by hitting.

I don't think I'd go down the route of asking another parent to step in; you could explain that Pollys Dad probably feels protective of his daughter and wants to understand why she was hurt. Could you try a reward chart for a new book, a night out to an observatory (seriously, my 9 year old's best trip ever was an observatory, I breed only stargazing loons) and the tasks/duties for the week need to be 'I will use my hands kindly', not 'I won't hit'. Give him a reminder of adults/helpers within school he can turn to and trust if he's feeling angry/upset.

He wouldn't be bothered about the lego going as he'd read or write instead or possibly just make up a game with something else like a bottle top. The lego isn't kept in his room, mostly the older toys that they don't play with. He was sat on his bed fiddling with hands when I kept going up to check on him.
Like I said taking away toys wouldn't bother him as he'd just read. He wouldn't see the lego going as a punishment as he isn't that attached. He's not a materialistic child. He likes toys but is just as happy pootling around in the garden with a stick that's plane. Some kids just don't respond to having stuff taken away as it's not important to them.

Also the boys toys are shared so I can't get rid of the lot as it's not fair on his younger brother.

He probably doesn't like clearing up after himself but he does it regardless because he's told to. I can't think of much else?

Blimey ....seems like you have every excuse covered in the book for not giving a punishment....

Leave it! He has been punished/told off at school. Missing playtime is a big thing at school.

Seriously, seriously he is 7. He didn't behave brilliant but you need to allow him to move on from it or he will define himself by it!

Deep breath.

If he does it again then you need to think of punishments. But really are punishments really apt for a 7 year old? How long does he have to punished? What is his sentence?

Role plays, coaching on what he should have done next time. But leave it.

so thats waht I would do make him spend all weekend doing chores (housework) whilst his brother gets to play with the shared toys.

any reason that wouldnt work?

Taking something away from a child that they aren't bothered about isn't a punishment. DS isn't really into anything to the extent that he'd miss it if it was removed.

I won't take away his books which he's only recently started to enjoy, he hold some pride over a new book he got at school. But that's about it.

I can give ds chores but that's not a punishment as he's expected to help out when asked regardless of good or bad behaviour.

I honestly wouldn't go down the path of further punishment , he is being punished at school for his behaviour at school . All you need to do is keep repeating he is not allowed to hit , kick , bite regardless of provocation until he gets the message .

I have a child who has had problems similar to this at the same age. I know he was being wound up by a few of the other boys and ended up punching one of them.

My reaction was very different to yours. Whilst I understood that he was being wound up (you are just hoping this is the case I gather because it means you don't have a bigger problem on your hands) and I listened to all his reasons for why he did it, I just kept repeating.

"But none of that allows you to hit someone"

The reasons really doesn't matter because it validates that there is some kind of acceptable reason which will help you make sense of it or will prevent it happening again.

The only thing which will prevent it happening again is for him to not hit people, even if they are annoying

What I worked on with DS was that you can;t make people behave as you want them to, you can't change how they behave, that's not the way life works. You can only change yourself and your reactions.

What are you going to do if you discover that actually she's just an irritating gobby child? What then? Are you going to make her behave differently? How?

We had a big discussion about what happens to the world if the people who hit the hardest get their way and how it really isn't pretty. Would it be OK if he was irritating and so you punched him? Ask him that. Ask him why that isn't OK.

You need to get this through to him as soon as possible because at 7 they are quite protected from themselves but in a few short years he will come across people who won't hesitate to hit him back and hard and they will be better at it than him and he won't be able to come crying to you then about it being unfair.

And I am not saying that little Polly has done anything wrong , just it is a valuable school lesson to learn .

And I'd certainly acknowledge Polly's dad.

kewcumber put it far better

But talking in line is something most 7 year olds would do occasionally, even if they knew the school rules. It's not for a child to enforce rules by hitting.

I know I was really baffled by it as was the teacher. I don't understand why he'd think talking = a hit? He obviously knows that hitting is wrong and far worse than talking in line. He can't explain why he did it. He just says I don't know.

I thought your ds had issues but now j think it is you, i believe you probably dpnt ever punish him so no wonder he does what he likes and hit people for no reason.

I hope you son learns to grow up and engage properly with other kids /people in spite of your complete lack of parenting skills in this area

Is he in infants or Juniors OP ?

But he gets away with hitting his younger brother who probably irritates the f*ck out of him, so why not someone else ?

Take his books and drawing/writing material away for a week, and don't let him play with the shared toys downstairs. And get him to do something like making his bed/tidying his room.

Also I'd get him to write another letter, or to approach polly when she's with her dad and get him to say sorry, so her dad acknowledges it.

And reiterate to him that he can't change other people's behaviour, but he can learn how not to react and it's not acceptable to hit/kick/bite other people. And if there's any issues with his friends/classmates he needs to tell his teacher.

The overwhelming majority of 7 year olds manage to get through school quite happily without punching other children so I dont think his age is a good excuse really.

Your approach is obviously not working otherwise there would not have been a second incident (totally unprovoked) so you really need to try another approach before Polly is thumped again.

Thanks jig

When I was a child I would get yelled at by a very intimidating Dad I was terrified. I don't want to parent my child through intimidation. I'd rather talk it through and explain how his actions have made everyone feel, how to react in the future. And explain that behaviour like that is never acceptable.

I don't have a child that's hooked to an iPad or a toys in general I actually think that's a positive quality to not be overly focused on materialistic possessions. Yes it makes him harder to punish. But that's his personality and that's ok.

Why won't you take away his books?

If my child had done this, I would have sought the parent out and apologised. It would also have opened a line of communication if any further incidents occurred.

YABVU not to apologise when you saw Polly's dad. Your child, your responsibility. He probably thinks you don't care that your child is going around biting people.

And, erm, talking it through isn't working and your DS obviously thinks his behaviour is ok, or he wouldn't have done it twice.

The only reason I asked about the infants/juniors thing is because when children get to top infants they can get a bit above them selves behaviour wise .

It is lovely I am sure to have such a un-materialistic child , but when puch comes to shove ( pardon the pun ) , all he needs to know is it is wrong to hit , bite, kick etc .

What puzzles me is that you think your DS isn't "frightened" of you or his Dad, when you shout at him.

You shouldn't have to shout at your child to make them do as they're told. You need to find a way of telling him off that works for you and not have to resort to someone else doing him telling off.

I'm not punishing him by preventing him from having the chance to read or write by removing pens and books that's ridiculous. I spent years encouraging him to read. I'm not going to start using it as a punishment.