To get the Dad of the girl DS bit to tell him off?

[RaisinBread]

Name change as this is probably quite obvious who I am with the details that will follow but have been on MN for 7 years.

I'm at my whits end with DS (age 7) and I have no idea how to punish him for this behaviour. Backstory-

There is a new girl in his class he has a small class of just over 20 with about 15 boys. Now for the second time in just over two weeks he has been violent towards this girl. The first time I was pulled over at collection because the new girl, lets call her Polly had shoved ds (Polly denies this) So Ds bit her hand. He has never bit anyone before in his life. After the incident the teacher said he had a panic attack and needed a lot of calming down. I suspect I think he knew he had done something horrendous and didn't know how to cope with it. The teacher told me that Polly's Dad was extremely angry.

When we got home I talked through why it was wrong, talked through reversed situations asked how would have felt had it been him that had been bit, if someone else had bit his little sister or me etc. etc. We talked through what would have been the right decision after the shove (telling a teacher). He was told that the behaviour was absolutely unacceptable and that I was very angry and upset. He was then sent up to his room until dinner, made a sorry card for Polly and then had a bath and was told to go to bed. I didn't scream or shout at him just had stern words and made it clear that it was to never happen again.

Now ever since the biting Polly's Dad has been giving me slightly dirty looks on the school run, I just smile as I did politely prior to the incident (as you do when you pass people on the school run). He reluctantly had to hold open a gate for me the other day as I had DD in pushchair but didn't talk to me. I have a a clear impression that he doesn't like me or my son after the biting incident. I haven't bought up the subject with him as I don't think it would achieve anything and I'm not going to apologise for my son's behaviour as I feel It's DS's job to apologise to Polly which he did in person several times and in writing. And he was punished in school by missing his playtime (not that I think this actually achieves anything)

Now to today. When I picked up Ds I was told that he had hit Polly in the stomach because she was talking in line. When I asked him why he just says he doesn't know why, and got very upset and cried. I didn't leave it and kept on asking why and repeating that "I don't know?" isn't an acceptable answer. I have no idea what to do, he just shuts down and won't talk about it.
We talked through why it was wrong to hit and talked through scenarios, of what other people would have done to solve Polly's chatting (like the teacher) and obviously none of them involved hitting. He's been sent up to his room.

And now I have no idea what to do. DS is a bright boy he really enjoys school and tends to be quite focused in class and works really hard. He seems to find maths and spellings easy has started to really enjoy reading and generally does well in class. So he isn't lashing out out of frustration from struggling with his learning.

He has friends and I would say is popular within the school. So not lonely. He's never lashed out at another child out of the school setting (bar his brother). He doesn't play violent computer games, or watch violent films. I would say the most violent thing he watches would be Ninja Turtle, Tom & Jerry and Totally Spies.
All is well at home DH & I have been together for 10 yrs and are happy so he's not picking up on anything negative going on at home.
He loves his baby sister to bits and is very helpful at home with her. He scraps with his younger brother 5 at times. Which they are both pulled up for. So all in all nothing I can think that would be linked to his violent outbursts.

I am at loss as to how to stop him lashing out at this girl as he is more than aware that his behaviour is wrong and unacceptable. I can't prevent it from happening at school as I am not there to parent him and make sure he makes the right choices. That's down to him and the school. I am now thinking that if common sense and empathy for Polly isn't stopping him maybe fear will?

As Polly's Dad is fuming over the situation would IBU to get ask him to tell off DS (in the presence of a teacher) as I think this might install a bit of fear and get him to stop and think in future or just stay clear of Polly.
As talking it through really isn't working and I'm not going to shout at him because I'm not actually angry just very frustrated.

Because he was clearly very angry so I'm sure that anger would have been pointed in my direction especially as in his eyes it was an unprovoked attack and in mine DS was shoved so was provoked (but reacted in the wrong way)

Please step back and try to see this from your DS point of view. He's acting out of character - why? There's clearly something going on.

Also don't apologise to Polly's dad. Polly has denied shoving ds. He should nt have an apology he should be teaching his DD the same lesson he expects your DS to learn - physical contact is not ok.

are you a single mom? Could your partnet or your son's dad have a word with him?

I suspect there's more to it, especially as he had a panic attack afterwards it sounds like she may have provoked him and he didn't know how to react or how to feel.

Ask your DS what Polly was saying when she was talking, and why did she shove him in the first incident. Or if he can't won't talk about it, perhaps ask him if he can draw what happened.

I'd also speak to your DS's teacher to see if she can keep an eye on him and the situation as you're very concerned as it's out of character.

Re Polly's Dad fuming over the situation, I wouldn't ask him to have words with your DS it might make your DS's anxiety worse. But I wonder if Polly is a bit of a trouble maker and her behaviour stems from her Dad....

It is not up to you to apologise to the Dad!

DS had something happen to him at school where he was hit and punched (he just cried). School dealt with it, parents were told - then the parents started apologising to me. I said, really no need (they are good friends to). As long as the children have apologised to DS - all was fine after.

Perhaps Polly is misbehaving trying to find her way in a new school? You really need to sort it out. But the bit I don't get, is surely the school know what your DS is like and know this behaviour is out of character for him. They should be looking at the bigger Polly picture.

I think that you've come to the right decision about asking Polly's dad to tell your DS off, that would have been an unreasonable request and unfair to your DS. I'm not sure whether it's because you feel at the end of your tether or because you desperately want Polly's dad to see that you are taking your DS's behaviour seriously? I don't think you need to apologise to him, you didn't bite her! Your DS has apologised and the school is hopefully working to stop this happening again, that's enough. Lots of lovely kids go through difficult stages, I'm sure it will pass.

Hang on, you don't want to yell at your child and you don't want your husband to yell at your child, because that would put the fear of God into a child (as you write). But you want another parent to scare your child into behaving.

Right.

Don't be too hard on your DS - I agree with the people saying that a non-violent child doesn't usually suddenly start biting at age 7 unless he is provoked. I know you haven't shouted and screamed, but just going on and on about it and punishing him may be why he doesn't want to talk about it. Stop with the punishments (let school deal with that) and try to get him talking to you.

Don't engage with Polly's Dad. I think it's better if it's all done through the school. IME it can get very emotional when parents try to sort these things out between them.

Do you know how the shove was supposed to have happened OP?

HeyDugee, I think the OP said her DH isn't the type to shout or put the fear of God into a child. Which isn't quite the same as what you've posted.

I think it would be worth talking to Polly's dad. But: not to apologise and not to ask him to tell off DS. More to acknowledge what's happened and say you're not ignoring it iyswim?

I would say something like "Hi, I know there's been a couple of incidents where DS has been aggressive towards Polly. Just wanted to let you know we've taken it very seriously at home, he's been punished and told to apologise to Polly. This is new behaviour from DS and he won't explain why he's done it so if you have any clues please let me know. Obviously we want to do whatever we can to make sure it doesn't happen again and we'll be keeping a very close eye on him".

Hopefully the "this is new behaviour from DS" might subtly get across the message that his DD might have prompted the reaction from your DS... but without actually saying so of course!

I really like minipie's suggestion.

If this is out of character for your son, obviously there's something going on between them. Is Polly having altercations with anyone else? If she's antagonizing him, it seems like she'd also be antagonizing other children as well.

Do you know how the shove was supposed to have happened OP?

I'd like to know this, too. A "shove" could encompass anything from a relatively gentle push, to knocking someone to the ground. Do you know exactly what happened?

Agree tiggy it's a possibility that Polly is somehow provoking it but only a possibility and nobody should assume that's the case. Unless DS will say more then it's a bit tricky to get any further with that aspect.

HeyDuggee

No what I'm saying is my Dad has a booming voice and when he shouted at me as a child it would scare me witless. It didn't matter what her was actually shouting it was more the act of shouting. My DH isn't like that and doesn't have that ability to install that fear. He does shout at times but it's nothing like the way my Dad used to. I didn't want Pollys Dad to scream and shout at him but I just thought if he could just see how cross he was, it might be wake up call. I now know it was a stupid idea that came out of frustration.

I've now had another chat with DS.

Biting incident: DS was working on a project at his desk he went to go and ask another boy (who he's good friends with) a question on the floor who was sat next to Polly. Polly didn't want him there and shoved him. (and then he bit her) I asked if the other boy saw the shove and he said yes.

I also asked how Polly is in class and he said that she talks at him a lot when he's trying to do his work and he doesn't like it. He also said that Polly tells him and a lots of the children to "shut up" when they are talking in class to one another (about their project) which he doesn't like. I asked if he's ever told the teacher, he said no.

I asked if he liked Polly (I did explain you don't have to like or be friends with everyone, as long as you aren't nasty to them that's ok) he said yes he does like her but she sometimes does annoy him. I asked him if he thought she like him and he shrugged and said he didn't know.

I asked about the talking in the line - She was in front of him and was talking (they aren't allowed to talk in line) and he hit her because she wouldn't stop talking. I asked what she was saying and he can't remember.

I've suggested that we tell the teacher of the incidents regarding Polly's behaviour as I feel like she may be struggling to find her place in the class. And has been displaying some bad behaviour herself. He didn't want to discuss it with the teacher and got quite chocked up but I said we have to otherwise they can't help him or Polly if they don't know what's going on.

It sounds like some of her behaviour is pushing ds's buttons to the point where he lashes out (which is of course unacceptable on his part). So may be a good idea if they aren't together in class, the line etc. Or are monitored so that the teacher can get the full picture.

tiggy Ds Knows what he should do, i'm trying to find out why he didn't do it and lashed out. Why else would a boy who's never bit anyone suddenly bite another child at the age of 7 unproved? I am sure he was provoked.

People asked me what Polly was saying. I didn't know, Ds wouldn't tell me earlier today so I tried asking again tonight. I definitely think the hit was to do with the you are doing something you shouldn't and we'll get into trouble, stop it. rather than Polly saying something to upset him. It was very wrong regardless of what she was saying.

And yes he should tell the teacher what Polly has been up to as it's their responsibility to protect Polly at school and if she continues to provoke ds there is a chance that another incident may occur. I do not want that to happen!

Do you think your son my have feelings for Polly and is confused about them?

if she continues to provoke ds there is a chance that another incident may occur

Why don't you actually tell him off? He's 7, he doesn't need a nice friendly chat about feelings. He's punching and biting other children, FFS.

Talk about sticking your head in the sand! Your kid is a bully!
He has bitten and then punched the new girl in the stomach!
I'll tell you how I know for sure he is a bully.He could give no reason for his actions when you first asked.It took him a while to come up with something.
(oh and even if polly did shove your DS which she denies, how hard could she have shoved him while she was sitting on the floor?)

I have told him off.

But I also want to know the reasons behind his actions so that involves chatting to him about how the incidents occurred. His feeling are what made him lash out, whether he was angry or frustrated. He needs to recognise how to react when he gets those feelings again. And not lash out.

Just yelling at him won't help him to stop a jerk reaction. Both the incidents weren't premeditated incidents, he isn't a violent child who is constantly hurting others or seeking to hurt other children.

If Polly talks in line, then it really is up to the teacher to deal with, not him.

He really needs to find other ways of behaving, rather than letting himself be provoked by someone and blaming her for being hit.

Have you actually told him off, or just talked it through with him and said that you're angry and upset? And don't say he isn't a violent child, he is physically hurting another child.