To get the Dad of the girl DS bit to tell him off?

[RaisinBread]

Name change as this is probably quite obvious who I am with the details that will follow but have been on MN for 7 years.

I'm at my whits end with DS (age 7) and I have no idea how to punish him for this behaviour. Backstory-

There is a new girl in his class he has a small class of just over 20 with about 15 boys. Now for the second time in just over two weeks he has been violent towards this girl. The first time I was pulled over at collection because the new girl, lets call her Polly had shoved ds (Polly denies this) So Ds bit her hand. He has never bit anyone before in his life. After the incident the teacher said he had a panic attack and needed a lot of calming down. I suspect I think he knew he had done something horrendous and didn't know how to cope with it. The teacher told me that Polly's Dad was extremely angry.

When we got home I talked through why it was wrong, talked through reversed situations asked how would have felt had it been him that had been bit, if someone else had bit his little sister or me etc. etc. We talked through what would have been the right decision after the shove (telling a teacher). He was told that the behaviour was absolutely unacceptable and that I was very angry and upset. He was then sent up to his room until dinner, made a sorry card for Polly and then had a bath and was told to go to bed. I didn't scream or shout at him just had stern words and made it clear that it was to never happen again.

Now ever since the biting Polly's Dad has been giving me slightly dirty looks on the school run, I just smile as I did politely prior to the incident (as you do when you pass people on the school run). He reluctantly had to hold open a gate for me the other day as I had DD in pushchair but didn't talk to me. I have a a clear impression that he doesn't like me or my son after the biting incident. I haven't bought up the subject with him as I don't think it would achieve anything and I'm not going to apologise for my son's behaviour as I feel It's DS's job to apologise to Polly which he did in person several times and in writing. And he was punished in school by missing his playtime (not that I think this actually achieves anything)

Now to today. When I picked up Ds I was told that he had hit Polly in the stomach because she was talking in line. When I asked him why he just says he doesn't know why, and got very upset and cried. I didn't leave it and kept on asking why and repeating that "I don't know?" isn't an acceptable answer. I have no idea what to do, he just shuts down and won't talk about it.
We talked through why it was wrong to hit and talked through scenarios, of what other people would have done to solve Polly's chatting (like the teacher) and obviously none of them involved hitting. He's been sent up to his room.

And now I have no idea what to do. DS is a bright boy he really enjoys school and tends to be quite focused in class and works really hard. He seems to find maths and spellings easy has started to really enjoy reading and generally does well in class. So he isn't lashing out out of frustration from struggling with his learning.

He has friends and I would say is popular within the school. So not lonely. He's never lashed out at another child out of the school setting (bar his brother). He doesn't play violent computer games, or watch violent films. I would say the most violent thing he watches would be Ninja Turtle, Tom & Jerry and Totally Spies.
All is well at home DH & I have been together for 10 yrs and are happy so he's not picking up on anything negative going on at home.
He loves his baby sister to bits and is very helpful at home with her. He scraps with his younger brother 5 at times. Which they are both pulled up for. So all in all nothing I can think that would be linked to his violent outbursts.

I am at loss as to how to stop him lashing out at this girl as he is more than aware that his behaviour is wrong and unacceptable. I can't prevent it from happening at school as I am not there to parent him and make sure he makes the right choices. That's down to him and the school. I am now thinking that if common sense and empathy for Polly isn't stopping him maybe fear will?

As Polly's Dad is fuming over the situation would IBU to get ask him to tell off DS (in the presence of a teacher) as I think this might install a bit of fear and get him to stop and think in future or just stay clear of Polly.
As talking it through really isn't working and I'm not going to shout at him because I'm not actually angry just very frustrated.

So if polly was provoking him what would your course of action be? Well polly provoked him so she got hit. End of? What could she have done to provoke such aggression? If he assaulted her this time and it was unprovoked (which you have been told it was) it was more than likely unprovoked last time.

Talking in the line is hardly provoking anybody plus I coach small children and I doubt she was the only one that was indeed talking. He has got anger management issues otherwise you wouldn't have been pulled in twice

Yes, OP. You keep talking it through with your little angel and reiterate that it's the person on the receiving end of his assaults who is somehow at fault.

Get other parents involved, ask me how to tell your son off, be that mum. Or, you know, try being an effective parent who doesn't have children that hurt other children.

If I was pollys parent I would not wish to be involved with your child. I would want you to do the parenting. Unless he has additional needs I would be furious if a SEVEN year old bit my child. This is not a toddler we are talking about.

^^ this.

I get why you don't want to apologise to Polly's dad obo your DS, but I wonder if responding to his dirty look with a smile, (as you say you did in your OP), could be quite infuriating for him despite your good intentions.

IMHO, you should put any idea that Polly provoked your DS completely out of your head. If she did anything wrong then the school / her parents are the ones to deal with it. I'm pretty sure you aren't ever going to get the full story about what happened. Maybe Polly shoved him or maybe not. You simply don't know, and in your position I would be more concerned about my DS's behaviour than that of a child not connected to me in any way. I'm not even mentioning the talking in line thing as it sounds like a pretty poor reason for hitting someone however you look at it.

Tiggy, jig and joy if a child is purposely winding up my child I want to know and I want it to stop. So I am in my right to find out if this is the case or not. Regardless if you think i'm victim blaming or burying my head in the sand.
I have every right to question my child on the exact goings on leading up to both instances weather you think I do or I don't. It's my call.

Purposely antagonising a child is not on. So if this is happening I want to know.

DS has been punished by the school and myself. I just need him now to make the correct choices. This is clearly going to be harder if he is put in a position several times a week where he may make the wrong choice. Don't you agree?

If this isn't happening and no antagonising is going on then we have a completely different situation on our hands. But I need the full picture.

what was his punishment? ?

Apologies if I have missed it, you mentioned something about him being in his room but surelg there was something else as well??

if I am confused about the punishment in place and I can see what you have wrote and read it back maybe he is finding it difficult to associate his actions with what you are doing as his punishment.

I must admit I would also be outraged if my dc was bitten by a 7yo,

Op you seem to be looking for a reason to justify your ds behaviour.

How on earth could talking in the line be construed as deliberately winding up your ds?

I really think you need to put aside the issues of blame and punishment and look at possible strategies for your ds to use when he feels angry.

The school should be happy to work with you both on this and may have ideas about what would work best in a classroom environment. My ds. for example, is allowed to leave the classroom if he feels upset but that might not be as workable for a 7yr-old.

So talking in the line is 'purposely antagonising' your DS?

Wow.

I would also certainly acknowledge to Polly's dad that you are aware of all this.

jig Non of that would bother ds as he isn't that bothered bout missing events, he actually likes staying at home and playing with lego, reading or doing mathletics. or pottering around the garden. He's often opted out himself from cinema trip and days out and DH has just taken our middle DC.

We have no parties coming up but I think that's more of a punishment for the party boy than DS as he has one less friend at his party. And again I doubt ds would mind again as he would just be happy to stay at home and read!

There is nothing that he holds dear that he would miss, they have limited time on the computer unless it's for school. He doesn't have a favourite toy. He just isn't materialistic or overly attached to any of his possessions. He watches tv but isn't bothered if he can't as in the summer we hardly ever have it on.

So bar banishing him to his room to reflect on is behaviour and missing out on interacting with the family for the night there isn't much else I can do.

My experience is that these things are very rarely one sided. I learnt fairly early on when told, x pushed me against the wall, to ask "and what happened just before that?"

But at the end of the day you have to get it through to him - no matter what's happened, he can't react that way.

I don't recommend my approach. I carefully explained that adults who hit others would be arrested by the police for assault. Dd was subsequently very keen for us to go down the police station when a boy in her class hit her.

Personally, having seen the interactions of parents when it comes to their offspring (and indeed my own reaction when mine were on the receiving end of similar) I would not approach the df at all and hope he forgets it was your ds.

The policing element - I think sometimes some of them are a little over zealous to police others and get extremely upset if somebody else is not doing the right thing, especially if they are doing the right thing themselves. One thing I try to ring home is, it doesn't matter what anybody else is doing, it's what you're doing that's important. I will be ashamed of you if you hit or bite people.

Forget Polly, forget her df. Teach him to be responsible for his own actions and not to be affected by what others are doing. Because if Polly left tomorrow, it might well be somebody else.

The school said it was unprovoked. Your ds is not saying she has apart from an apparent shove when he bit her. Which actually could have been a bump or a knock and he seen it as a shove. She was talking next so he hit her in the stomach. These are all admissions from him so where are you getting she is winding him up? Are you going to ask him leading questions ?

Your just looking to blame polly rather that actually what's going internally with your son and how to deal with it.

Your DS should not be attacking other children. And at 7 should be well past the biting stage. He sounds a badly behaved child and the school should be dealing with it. I don't think your softly softly approach seems to be working.

This *
Forget Polly, forget her df. Teach him to be responsible for his own actions and not to be affected by what others are doing. Because if Polly left tomorrow, it might well be somebody else*

You might not get a fuller picture than you already have. But if there is a problem with either your DS or Polly then more incidents will probably follow.

Tell your DS he isn't the class policeman. If Polly (or anyone else is talking) then he does not get involved.

Confiscate a toy/game player and say he has to behave gently and kindly for x period of time to win it back.

DCs can and do provoke each other. Lashing out is never the answer, but it's also not the answer to imply that one child has to simply endure constant provocation and never retaliate. That's keeping one child to a higher level of behaviour than the other. If one child has to learn not to respond then equally the other child has to learn not to deliberately provoke.

However I think the issue here is that Polly didn't deliberately provoke your DS in the line so you have to work with your DS to ensure he's not slipping into a habit of seeing Polly as someone he can hit or treat differently from everyone else in the class.

so the only punishment was him going to his room?? where all his toys are??

1. take away the lego
2. take away any other toys he likes
3. get his to spend time doing stuff he doesnt like (if you tell me theres nothing he doesnt like ill prob think your lying)

I would be googling punishments for 7 yr olds rather than letting this go unpunished.

I really don't get the talking in line thing TBH? I've asked him to explain. I don't see it as her antagonising him. But DS might if she purposely wasn't stopping as he knew that they weren't aloud to talk and the rest of the class were following the rule. Or if she was purposely ignoring him. I have no idea how his head works because like I said he's fully aware of what is right and wrong but chose to act completely irrationally by thumping her.

I haven't read the whole thread but my experience as a teacher is that there are individual children who do provoke others to get a reaction.

Your DS reaction is obviously unacceptable (as you clearly realise), but if I had suspicions that this was a result of being provoked, as a teacher I would watch very carefully at playtime and other trigger points to gauge the interaction between your DS and Polly.

On the other hand, from what I have read on the thread, your son seems to be upset when Polly does not follow the rules. It might be useful to discuss with him that it is not his job to ensure rules are followed and to talk what he should do if he has concerns about another child's behaviour.

Wether you believe your ds was provoked in the first incident or not, its clear Polly did not provoke your ds to punch her in the stomach. Its not your sons job to punish other children for breaking then rules, and certainly not with violence.

If I was Pollys dad I would get her removed from the class away from your son. You seem to be looking for any reason you can to blame Polly because you don't want admit your DS could behave like that.

You really shouldn't concern yourself with what Polly may or may not be doing... there will always be a "Polly" in life that he won't get along with but there is never a justification to assault them.

The only relevant point is that your ds has reacted to a situation by hitting another child... you therefore need to teach him alternative ways to react to a similar situation in the future.

My ds (7) got grabbed by two boys and swung around so hard that he got slung across the playground, causing him to break his glasses and cutting his face. The HM rang me to let me know what he had done and I was happy with that. One of the parents rang me to apologise and tell me what she was doing by way of punishment. The other child's parent never rang me and has not been able to look me in the eye since. I have more respect for the parent who rang me.

Agree Minion.

He is 7 , an age not renowned for its critical thinking . You need him to understand that regardless of what Polly does and doesn't do , he is not allowed to punch , bite , kick etc EVER .

Is he 7 and top infants or 7 bottom juniors ?

I think you need to calm down.

Not acceptable. Serious incident. But it has been dealt with. Unkind behaviour. Twice. This is not great. But let's give your DS a chance to show he has learned his lesson. A low-key repeating of what to do if someone does something he doesn't like (tell the teacher) and try to leave it.

If you carry on you will get him so wound up about the whole thing he may anxious and overly aware of Polly - and her behaviour. Causing a repeat incidence? Lots and lots and lots and lots of drama and attention over it.

A quiet word with the teacher to say you would like to be told if there are any further issues. Lots of praise at home for good sharing/patience/not getting het up.