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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask how you'd deal with this?

185 replies

turquoiseamethyst · 09/03/2015 16:49

I'm really surprised as DS (8) has been in trouble today. This has never happened before. He was really rude to the TA and then stroppy with his teacher when she reprimanded him. He lost his play as a result and I am completely supportive of this.

DS is normally LOVELY (I know, biased much) but honestly he is the nicest boy as a rule and his teacher did say how out of character it was.

I recently told my husband to leave so it doesn't take a genius to work out it's obviously really upset DS but at the same time I don't want him to think it's acceptable to be rude or unpleasant to people.

Any advice? Sad Blush

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 11/03/2015 22:37

You know your ex was abusive. Your DS is sad and confused but it doesn't mean you should get back with your ex

Absolutely. Taking this abusive bully back would result in long term damage to you and the children. Don't be tempted to do it because your son is confused and hurting just now.

MoustacheofRonSwanson · 12/03/2015 04:44

Oh dear. This is tricky.

I think your DS is very scared, stressed and confused by what is going on.

In abstract, the right approach is a cuddle and chat along the lines of "I know you are upset, and Iwant to help you with that", reassurring him that you love him, leading to a discussion about "even when we are stressed and upset, it's not ok to be unkind/rude etc to other people".

However, this is complicated by a few things:

  1. His dad has gone, and you are the only parent DS has left.
  2. He will feel very dependent on you,e specially as he is scared by the fact that one of his parents (who was a pillar in his life, no matter how deficient your ex was in that)
  3. He knows you asked his dad to go. Irregardless of whether he agrees with that (he may be a bit too young to really understand these things, and if he is able to understand it, he is definitely not old enough to handle the emotional impact of that understanding), he will now not want to do anything that might alienate you, his remaining parent.
  4. So that could easily mean he won't want to talk to you about what is troubling him in detail, in case he offends or hurts you. That's why he is "fine". Both because your are his mum and he loves you and he doesn't want to hurt you, and also because when his dad did not behave in the right way, you sent his dad away. So on some level he might think you might send him away too. Doesn't matter that that isn't actually true, he'll be scared by it even being a possibility in his mind. And at that age he will be terrified by the fact his parents have split up. His whole world is upside down, or rather, torn in two.
  5. So yes, you need to reassure him, yes you need to love him, yes you need to be firm and gentle on standards of behaviour. And yes, he does need to talk to someone about/find a form of expression of what is troubling him. But the best person for that might not be you. It might be another trusted and neutral adult, a relative, someone at school, a therapist. And yes, you need to be big enough to handle that. You're not a neutral outsider in this situation, you are very much part of it, and so talking to you about it in any depth might be very, very difficult for your son. Might not always be like that, but that's his decision whether he is comfortable enough to talk to you about it, not your decision.
MoustacheofRonSwanson · 12/03/2015 04:45

*scared by the fact that one of his parents is gone, whatever the rights and wrongs of that are

Charley50 · 12/03/2015 07:38

It also could be that he was copying someone at school in saying shut up and tearing up paper and that he isn't particularly upset. Just saying, as sometimes we do project our feelings into others.

turquoiseamethyst · 12/03/2015 07:50

He's never done anything remotely like this before charley.

Thanks, but I already feel inadequate as a parent and as a person and people repeatedly saying - even when it is sandwiched between 'oh obviously it ISN'T like that, but ...' - that it's because I told dH to leave is obviously going to feel like a knife going in me. I have already lost more sleep than I can catch up on in a lifetime worrying about how dhs behaviour may have impacted on this child as it is. I have two others who I doubt it will as they are babies, but my DS is the huge worry and always has been.

Its easy to fall into the self pitying trap of either I ruined his life by not getting DH out sooner or I ruined his life by getting DH out full stop but either way I can't do that. DS has always been lovely and so it's been easy kidding myself dhs behaviour hasn't 'really' affected him and I've prided myself on sheltering him, but maybe I haven't done as good a job as I forced myself to believe.

OP posts:
MissDuke · 12/03/2015 07:56

Op, please don't feel inadequate. It is incredibly brave imo to have asked dh to leave - cannot have been easy and I have no doubt that you believe it will benefit your family in the long term. He WILL get over this, though you will obviously need to try and establish a good relationship with exh, and hopefully contact etc will go as smoothly as possible. I think its been mentioned, but some schools do have counselling services attached, I would definitely be availing of it for ds.

turquoiseamethyst · 12/03/2015 08:08

Thanks - his school doesn't (very small rural school) but may ask what other services they have; I'm keeping him off today and tomorrow.

OP posts:
saoirse31 · 12/03/2015 08:11

Think you should row back on continually getting d's to explain how he feels. do stuff with him, stop obsessing about behaviour and he'll open up if atmosphere is right. let school deal with incidents and support them but don't act as if it's end of world...

MarianneSolong · 12/03/2015 08:13

Not sure why you're keeping him off school. Perhaps at a time of change there is value in some things staying the same?

saoirse31 · 12/03/2015 08:14

Also maybe get some perspective... your dc will not always behave perfectly...and that's good!!! maybe u r dh absence is now allowing him to react to things, show feelings etc. Not in right way yet but probably a good sign

turquoiseamethyst · 12/03/2015 08:23

I haven't punished him

I have got perspective

And I'm keeping him off school as I think it's the right thing to do.

OP posts:
MoustacheofRonSwanson · 12/03/2015 08:28

Asking your ex to leave was the right thing to do. You shouldn't feel bad about that at all. But it is also entirely understandable that you do feel bad and confused about it. Perhaps it would be easier to think of it like "this has happened because DH was the kind of person who had to be asked to leave" rather than "this happened because I asked DH to leave". It's obviously not ideal that you had to ask him to leave, but you wouldn't have done it unless it had to be done.

Continuing to handle that situation well is about ensuring that you minimise the effects of that split on your children. That is more likely to be done by accepting that split will affect them, and working on minimising/counterbalancing that effect, not by hoping it won't affect them. It will. Quicker you accept that and get on with dealign with it the better. It is entirely understandable to hope that there has bee no fallout and that everything is ok, but that doesn't make it accurate. But not asking him to leave would have affected them too. It's better that you did ask him to leave. But that, unfortunately is not the end of what you will have to deal with.

The split also brings with it knock-on effects for your children that need to be accepted and dealt with as they are. That doesn't detract from the fact that asking your ex to leave was the right thing to do. The fact that children will be upset when their parents split up is pretty much unavoidable. How you show you are a good parent in this is how much you help them to deal with that (even if that means getting other people to directly help rather than yourself), not by getting caught up in guilt and going back on the original decision, or trying to pretend that everything is fine.

It's not about taking your ex back, it's about making sure you get the right help for your DS that takes his experience of the situation into account (whether or no that experience is correct in it's assessment of the rights and wrongs of things). You need to accept how he feels and start from there, not try to make it into a situation that it isn't.

You won't be able to hide your feelings of guilt, hurt etc around the split from DS. That is entirely normal and understandable, and unavoidable. But you need to understand that he will sense those feelings, and he will clam up because he doesn't want to hurt you/he is generally fearful or upset just now. Getting in a tailspin about what people are thinking about you and are you doing the right thing only underlines how emotionally enmeshed you are in this- he needs someone neutral. He needs someone to talk to who is not as invested in the situation- so he doesn't have to worry about how what he says will affect them, but is able to speak freely.

I wouldn't rush too quickly into "DS has picked up DH's bad behaviour because I didn't shield him enough/act quick enough either". Don't assume the behaviour is about copying your ex. It could just be acting up due to the general situation. Don't tar a child with "you take after your father". It could be that, but it could also be anxiety, missing his dad, setting the boundaries, confusions over standards of behaviour when he sees various adults saying one thing but doing another, just plain unhappiness and stress. All of which are pretty normal reactions to this from an 8 year old. He reactions might not be "correct" or "right" but they are valid, and they are his reactions.

saoirse31 · 12/03/2015 08:29

agree with not keeping him off school. complete over reaction tbh. Also and off on tangent completely, as a parent imho you only stay off school if you really have to...

turquoiseamethyst · 12/03/2015 08:40

Thanks moustache but I can't summon people from thin air to talk to DS. I know what you're saying though.

Saoirise do Stop patronising me. I'm keeping him off because it's the right thing to fo. Are you here?! No. So how do you know it's an over reaction?

OP posts:
MoustacheofRonSwanson · 12/03/2015 08:47

That's true. And social isolation can be a real kicking when you're already down for single parents. But it doesn't need to be today or tomorrow, just sometime in the next six months to a year (who could be online for example, are there any charities that do online chat for kids or moderated forums for them?). Even if it takes you a few months to find or identify those people. The reassurance and listening you can do will be enough in the near future, just don't think it's all that will ever be needed IYSWIM. Good luck. Some emotional security from staying at home with you for a bit could be what he needs just now btw.

Sortmylifeout · 12/03/2015 08:50

As a single parent (been through the dc's distress after father left) and a teacher I can't think of any reason why you should keep him off school. Don't shout at me but he needs routine and normality as far as possible.

MarianneSolong · 12/03/2015 08:51

I think there are a lot of people here who have experience of marital breakdown and also of children who are distressed because of major upheavals. I think you alternate between sounding completely lost and confused and in two minds wanting guidance - and then when guidance is offered saying you know 'the right thing to do'

There's been plenty of good advice here. Perhaps you need time to think things over.

turquoiseamethyst · 12/03/2015 08:52

Yeah well I'm an erstwhile teacher too and I think he needs to be at home for the foreseeable.

Teachers are insufferable at times

OP posts:
Charley50 · 12/03/2015 09:37

Sorry but I really don't see why you would keep him off school. He said shut up. He tore up some paper. Can't remember the other thing. That is no reason to keep him off. He needs normality and routine. I
think he may see being kept off school as further 'punishment' for what? Nothing really. You are losing a little perspective here. And what do you mean 'the foreseeable'?

ilovesooty · 12/03/2015 10:01

You're his mother. You're the best judge of whether he needs to be at home this week.

Your marital break up is yours not anyone else's.

But please don't consider taking your husband back.

MarianneSolong · 12/03/2015 10:10

Sometimes as parents we make the wrong call. It's possible as mothers to react in a kneejerk way out of our own fear and insecurity.

And it is possible that we will sometimes give out unhelpful messages to children. Such as that if they are experiencing frustration in a particular environment, rather than being helped to work through that by staff and parents working collaboratively, Mummy will whisk you away for nice, cosy day at home.

Which is something that never normally happens unless you're ill. So perhaps you are ill even if you don't feel it?

turquoiseamethyst · 12/03/2015 10:28

thanks ils

OP posts:
PintofCiderPlease · 12/03/2015 10:43

If he's NEVER behaved naughtily by the age of 8, then something is wrong.

I'm sorry, but NEVER being cheeky or NEVER deliberately disobeying you..... it's just not what happens with children.

They NEED to test their boundaries, and it sounds as though his boundaries were SO strict that he never felt the freedom to do anything.

Now, the keeper of those boundaries has gone.

Your DS is lost, because he doesn't know where the boundaries are.

And, quite rightly, you are being less strict with him than his dad was. It will take time, but your DS will work it out as long as you stay consistent and fair with him. He's had 8 years of this conditioning, he's not going to find his feet in just a few days, or even weeks.

BuildYourOwnSnowman · 12/03/2015 10:45

My ds is the same age and sounds similar to yours.

One thing that may help is having a friend round for a play. When ds was going through a bereavement we had a friend round and they had the most adorable conversation. Sometimes kids can open up to their peers in a way they can't with adults

Charley50 · 12/03/2015 10:58

Why exactly are you keeping him off? I'm not attacking you; you've asked for advice and maybe we can help. As a teacher what would you think if this was a child you taught being kept off school for this reason? Also, how is your DS today?

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