to think my friend's children should go to church?

[ClassicTron]

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

Just to add another point, parents have an obligation to their children by virtue of being their parents and making the decision to take on all the responsibilities and obligations that brings. There is not a reciprocal obligation from children to their parents; they did not make a choice unlike their parents.

For example, I or dh expect to have attend school events, football matches, ballet classes, medical appointments and all the rest. There is not an expectation that the dc will attend Dh's or my activities or even that dh will attend mine or vice versa because we're grown ups.

Except a football match or theatre are fun and church is boring as all fuck.

Don't know - the local church does try hard to be fun and they sing loads of songs from my C of E school childhood and I've also sat through some dire pretentious shit in theatres that DH wanted to see bored out my skull.

Yes, maybe she is embarrased that her children have turned into "heathens", and not there to publicly hand her flowers and for others to admire.

She has spent her children's lives prioritising church over them

Bloody hell. Isn't she allowed one morning a week to do something she wants to do?

I think, out of love and consideration for their mum they could go.

I would prefer my teenagers to be nice to me throughout the year than on a particular day.I don't expect anything on Mothers Day and find the whole charade quite distasteful. I would never go to church to make someone feel good about themselves

^^that was well put and better than I said it.

And yes, the OP's friend does need to separate emotionally from her teenage sons if she is crying because they won't do something she wants (for herself). Really, I'd be crying 24/7 sometimes if I took that same attitude!

Oh, no. The "fun" church services are the WORST.

MovingOn does have a point about non reciprocal obligations as well - though it wasn't unheard of my teenage self and my siblings to go to stuff just to show some support to one of our parents.

I could see a case of Mum been fine with them not going for years - so it doesn't occur to anyone that she'd like a bit of support - and then doesn't say anything but get upset and talk to friends not her family so they don't know.

Ghostly I agree. As an atheist myself I have developed the ability to separate myself off from the religiousness of the few services I have felt obliged to attend as an adult. I don't participate in the prayers etc but still feel a hypocrite at times, especially when there are people there who are very into it all and who seem to assume that you are too.

Expat . I do recall one very entertaining methodist minister who was determined to frighten everyone to death. That was quite entertaining. We were there to sing in a concert. Even the religious ones amongst us were a bit

I think nannyogg put it best for me

Your friend needs to stop getting so upset though, if they don't want to and can't be encouraged by DH to go to church the she is going to make herself very miserable

OP you're getting a massive slating here that would never have occurred if the situation related to another faith or atheism

Spare us with your Christianity under siege, 'you'd never say it about teh moozlims' schtick. I don't know many teenagers who have been forced to go to an atheist church/ service either?

Is it more that she wants the congregation to see her children presenting her with flowers? The public nature being the key.

I am a Christian but I find 'public Christians' quite tiresome. It's quite an old fashioned thing - being seen to do the 'right' thing. Faith, to me, is my choice and my behaviour not public displays.

Surely they can present her flowers at home. Plan something special, etc.

But, I suspect it's not the flowers that are the crux of this.

ToysRLuv Indeed. Spare us happy-clappy!

Random I don't see how the choice of religion is relevant or that it has even been mentioned by pp

RTFT. Someone posted it a page back.

Yup, "fun" church services are about as fun as "hip and trendy" antiques dealers on tv are hip and trendy. They try to come across as fun and wacky but come across as pathetic.

I think OP, the problem isn't the teens, it the DH. He must know church is important to his DW, he must know it upsets her that they don't go to church on even special occasions, he must know that his action of giving them the option of staying at home from a very young age has enabled this situation to occur that they don't realise they are upsetting their mother by refusing to go to soemthing that matters to her - or that they do know they are upsetting their mother but he's not taught them that her feelings matter.

Many people look at religion and purely negative, but as others have said, if you don't believe in it, then what it really boils down to is them refusing to do something once or twice a year to keep their mum happy. And their dad having no problem with from the age of 8 (!) letting them treat their mum like that.

Mothering sunday services aren't fire and brimstone in most churches, it's a nice, family focussed service. Hardly going ot 'brain wash' someone who's not religious, but might teach them the importance of putting other people's feelings first.

OP - your friend's DH doesn't care enough about her feelings to put himself out and teach his DCs that their mum's feelings matter too. Teens who aren't taught this tend to grow up to be rather shitty people while they learn the hard way by hurting people who don't then hang around.

I think your friend would be U to expect them to attend every week if they do not believe.

However, if their attendance on Mother's Day means so much to her, I think they should go. Families do things to please each other and indulge each other on special days.

I have a hobby I usually do on a Sunday night but next week I am missing it to have dinner with my mum. I don't really care about mother's day but I know it means a lot to her. It's the same thing.

Random - I do think the fact it's a church service that's the issue for a lot of people, as others have said, if it was say, a play she was in, a musical performance, a sport event she was taking part in, most people would say they should be dragged along to support their mum for an hour one day a year. It's because her outside interest is the church that she's not going to be afforded the same right for her to expect a small bit of her DCs time for something they have no interest in but she does.

I am a Christian who stayed with the church throughout my teens (just).

If there had been any public flower-giving to mothers in any context - Church or otherwise - when I was between the ages of 12 and 16, I would have run for the hills - and I had a good relationship with my mum. Even now if DM were still alive I'd feel a bit uncomfortable at the public-ness of it all.

This might be an additional factor to think about..

Maybe the DH and teens are planning on making a lovely fuss of mum when she gets back from church. I think if she's crying because they don't want to make a public show on her terms, she sounds a bit silly.

If my DC were going to make a fuss of me I'd much rather they did it in a way that they'd thought of themselves, rather than just going along with something I'd dictated to them, that to me would feel less special.

ToysRLuv - really? I find many of them very funny - not always parts I'm supposed to .

Not that I laugh out loud or show disrespect and I don't mock other religious beliefs.

Though to be fair local church did have a vicar and a team round him that did do humour well - and weren't happy clappy but self depreciating and friendly. They change victors and I haven't had cause to go since.

I do wonder if stargirl has a point about the public nature of the event - perhaps it's that rather than anything causing the upset.

Perhaps she had a lot of comments making her self conscious about her DC not attending - something that perhaps she was fine about previously but now feels self conscious and embarrassed about.

Perhaps OP friend just needs a way to tell people to fuck off and mind their own business rather than to get her DC to church that one day?

If it was my mum, I'd go. Shouldn't force those who are unwilling though.

Sorry have not RTFT but has she explained to the DH and DC how sad it makes her feel? Obviously it is up to this family how they sort out their business, but that is what I would do.

" It's because her outside interest is the church"

Yes, because as it's already been said multiple times, Church is different to a play, or a recital, or a football match. The kids would be expected to participate, to go up and give their mother flowers, to play a role in an event that is meaningless to them, even hypocritical. It would require them to put their beliefs to one side, to suggest to them that what they believe is less important than being a hypocrite because it's somehow important to their mother that they are seen to be there in public.

She needs to accept that the children don't have the same beliefs as she does and that a big family show of belief just isn't going to happen. Doesn't mean her kids love her any less, just that they aren't prepared to compromise their beliefs.

(Of course, if the children do believe but just can't be arsed to get out of bed on a Sunday, this may not be applicable! But OP hasn't been forthcoming on the kids' own beliefs, or lack of them...)

What I find most shocking and depressing about this thread is the number of posters banging on about this mother's neglect, her prioritising the church over her family, she should stay home instead of going to church. What if she played tennis/cricket/studied Italian/painted for a couple of hours every Sunday?

FWIW, her sons need to be made aware of how much this would mean to her - either directly or via DH. Then they can decide. Hopefully, they will be generous and kind and give their mother some flowers in church because it will make her bloody happy and it's one hour out of their lives.