to think my friend's children should go to church?

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Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

WWJD

Stay out of it

Why is it up to the dh to 'put his foot down' op? Also, as others have said, the fact that she would rather miss the service than have others see that her children are not there to give her flowers speaks volumes. She is being very unreasonable imo. I definitely don't agree with people forcing others into attending church.

What if they are simply atheists and feel very strongly about organised religion? Perhaps they are not prepared to be hypocritical.

Good point PatriciaHolm .

That a different view to my atheist. I can take participate in something that has no significance to me but means a lot to people I love - like a church service though perhaps I do have lines somewhere I won't cross - but I can see other's might find their beliefs preclude joining in.

Comes back again to OP friend talking to her DC - telling them how she feels listening to them and see if they can find some kind of compromise.

She does seem to be rather heavily involved though if the church is her employer, she volunteers there and also goes to service each week. How much time does she spend there?

Just stepping aside from the whole religious debate for a sec...

A teenager presenting his/her mum with flowers in front of everyone at a Mother's Day service??

Really, I would have felt such a tit doing this as a teenager. It wouldn't mean I didn't love my mum but it sounds mortifying. Surely it's for little kids to do or for grown-up children, or for a very rare, unself-conscious probably Christian teen maybe.

But it sounds like pure fantasy to me and much less heartfelt than a true moment of appreciation at home. I can't imagine why a mum would want her teen DCs to do this just to make her happy. I mean really - I struggle to get into the head of someone to whom that engineered moment is so important.

my atheism - I meant there. Should read before posting.

DH is much less willing to go along to church stuff with the DC - but he still goes if they make it clear it's important to them. It's not like he won't set foot in a church and will walk out of a prayer being said - though I image there are people who would take that stance.

Going to a church service (even one day a year) is completely different to taking your mother to a film you don't like. I'm very anti-organised religion, I would not attend a church service, but I would take someone I cared about to a movie if I didn't particularly fancy it because I don't fundamentally disagree with a film.

I'm also sure the point of mothers day was to do something thoughtful and kind for your mother, why is putting effort into a gift, a card or a day out not good enough, why does it have to be as someone demands in exact detail, surely it's better to have something your child has thought of themselves and put effort into rather than just doing what you want?

I'd never expect someone to come to church for my benefit if it was something they didn't want to do, likewise your point regarding funerals, I'd give my offspring every right to refuse to go to one should they choose for whatever reason, when I was a child (not a teen, probably no older than 10) I chose not to go to my Grandfathers funeral, I didn't want to, it made me sad and my parents respected that choice, sometimes you have to trust that your children have opinions of their own, trust that you have raised them well enough to become decent people capable of choosing their own paths even if it doesn't fit with yours.

Her kids are probably resentful of all the time she spends with the church instead of them, and the last thing they want to do is get involved in celebrating it.

Plus what others have said, no self respecting teenager would present their mum with flowers in front of an audience. The mum is being delusional.

I'm with pinkdelight. This presenting of the flowers by children/teens to mothers doesn't sound like anything I've ever seen on Mothering Sunday at church, and I had to do a lot of church in my younger years.

It sounds very alienating and wildly inappropriate if you ask me for all sorts of reasons.

A quick other point, could they not perhaps show more interest without having to attend, such as asking how the service went and genuinely listening to her response or telling her they hope she has a nice time at the service, she'd feel they were included but they wouldn't have t compromise any beliefs they have?

I assumethat she doesn't want to sit through a service full of children collecting daffodils to give to their mums rather than worrying about what others may think of her

"Her kids are probably resentful of all the time she spends with the church instead of them"

Highly unlikely. They are probably delighted to be left in peace to sit on their arses watching youtube.

Ha fair point Majestic

There are no circumstances where any thinking person, whatever their age, should be pressured or guilt tripped into attending church. None. That goes for funerals and weddings, carol services etc.

Mother's Day can be celebrated at home, and has nothing to do with religion anyway. If the rest of the congregation asks where her kids are she can just say "They are not believers" and leave it at that.

It seems to me that your friend is less concerned about having her kids treat her on Mother's Day than having them ostentatiously make a gesture in public so that all her mates can see. That is not what it's meant to be about and she needs to sort out her priorities.

And I agree with the others....it's absolutely none of your business. And her crying on your shoulder does not, in fact, give you the right to decide how other people behave.

I agree with those who said she is not prioritising the church over her family by attending services and doing some church work, also for many people of faith that is something that helps keep them strong mentally to do their best in everyday life, as a parent and so on. I know people get it wrong, but family is an important thing in Christianity and no good church leader should encourage her to take on so many church roles that she is not able to look after her family proper!y.
However about the question of making the kids go I certainly wouldn't force them. It would be OK to ask them and say if would mean a lot to her. Maybe they could have a good talk about it and get the kids opinions. If they do feel a bit neglected and resent the church or maybe they don't believe, or maybe they just don't like the services. It would certainly be good to know.

Mother's Day can be celebrated at home, and has nothing to do with religion anyway. - I think you will find that the origins of Mothering Sunday are based around faith. A lot of 'Mother's Day' celebrations are now based purely on commercialism.

That's a bit like saying Christmas has nothing to do with religion. .

Well, as I am sure you are aware, Ragwort, the Christian "Mothering Sunday" had nothing to do with mortal mothers and their children, but the "Mother Church". So no relevance to the OP's friend wanting her kids to give her flowers in front of everyone. She is not the Mother Church, is she?

Mother's Day is a modern invention.

For many people Christmas indeed has nothing to do with religion. Surely I don't meed to remind you of it's pagan roots?

Well the origins of Mothering Sunday are faith-based but they were to do with returning to your 'mother church', not giving your mum some flowers. Things change.

x-post,caffe

Ragwort, if the BBC explanation of mothering Sunday is correct, then it is wholly inappropriate that the op's friend would try and force her children to attend for this 'special occasion' - as it appears to relate to regular church goers attending their 'mother church'. Not sure where the tradition of teenagers presenting their mother with flowers fits in. I appreciate the BBC link may be missing something though!

www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/holydays/motheringsunday_1.shtml

I absolutely agree that no one should be forced to attend a Mothering Sunday Service & present flowers to their mother - my point was that it is my belief that the service does have it's origins in faith, as in returning to the 'Mother Church'.

CaffeLatteIceCream has it absolutely spot on IMHO.

I was a child forced to to to church against my will by a mother who prioritised Church over family. At the age of 16 I refused point blank to go any more.

I don't think the issue us to do with whether the dc will be 'brainwashed' through one attendance at church or whether this is an indication of lack of love/respect for their mum.

It is a matter of principle. How can they take part in a religious service if they have no belief? I'm surprised at how many posters on this thread are prepared to overlook this in favour of " Aw just go and be nice to your mum"

As an atheist of mature years old I have found ways of being in a church which I'm more or less comfortable with when there is no alternative. I think it's a bit much to expect a teen to do this when they have said no and are finding their feet around how to manage this kind of thing.Teens are often very hot on principle ime.

And, as has been said, many teen boys would rather poke their own eyes out with a stick than engage in public displays of affection with a parent

I hated the pressure to song hymns and say prayers when I believed the words and sentiment to be wrong. I absolutely refused to take part in Communion as it felt so hypocritical. I knew I could get away with refusing because my mother wouldn't want a 'scene' in Church.