to think my friend's children should go to church?

[ClassicTron]

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

Yes, some good points tomand

and same with you ClassicTron. good points

But op she hasn't asked them to go in this day has she? They probably have no clue how important it is to her.

he was a church goer when she married him and the children were dedicated in the church....

So? That doesn't invalidate their opinions now they're old enough to make up their own minds.

And crying about your teenage children not wanting to go to church is pretty manipulative. I do hope she doesn't turn on the waterworks in front of them.

Religion, and how you practise it, is a very personal thing which you shouldn't force upon anyone regardless of weather it would make you happy or not.

YABU.

My parents forced me to attend Sunday school and then church well into my teens. My Mum is Christian (she says) and my Dad is Muslim (ditto). I've never seen either of them at a religious service in my life.

As soon as I was old enough to make my own conclusions about things, I became vehemently anti-religion for myself.

DS1 is very keen to attend church and Sunday school and I'm happy for him to go, I think it's up to each individual person.

Yes it's sad for her that she won't get flowers handed to her (although do the teens really do that in church?) but her children's rights not to have to sit through a service they don't believe in wins out I think.

I find religious services incredibly awkward, I don't want to sing hyms, bow my head to pray etc.

The difference between a standard church service as opposed to a religious wedding/funeral, is that a wedding/funeral isn't just about religion is it, one can enjoy a wedding/mourn a lost friend without believing in god. Attending a normal Sunday service is pretty pointless if you're a non-believer.

For that reason, I'm not sure the analogy with a theatre performance really applies. A theatre performance can be enjoyed by everyone, a church service cannot.

A family member of mine sings in a cathedral choir and I've been known to attend the odd service to show interest/support, but I firmly believe I'm under absolutely no obligation to do so, it's my choice.

I don't think it's about forcing them to go to church, it's about teaching them that sometimes, once in a while, you do something you don't particularly enjoy because it makes someone else happy. Just like their mum does every time she goes to pick them up somewhere, all the boring school plays she's watched and freezing sports pitches she's stood at, the washing and ironing she's done and all the times they've been on holidays to "family" destinations.

Random - great answer!!

I know as a teenager I never went to church, my parents were very heavy on religion and it put me off it.

Plus what self respecting teen is seen giving flowers in public!!

Sorry YABU. I'm another one who was forced to attend church - absolutely non-negotiable as we were growing up, and am now resolutely atheist. I would go to church for funerals and weddings but only because I had to. Nothing else would get me in there.
When we got married, in a civil ceremony, I knew that it would break my mums heart that it wasn't in church and I knew my older relatives disapproved whole-heartedly. Still did it though, because it's my life and my beliefs (or lack of them).

To her credit, my mum sucked it up and got on with the day and never mentioned it to me. That's what I think your friend should do too.

DW has a cousin in the same position except that the sons are now adult and moved out and her DH shares her faith. So does one son, the youngest of three, but the other two don't - and when the eldest was thirteen and said Dad, it's not my scene, see you there at the next family wedding they accepted it without tears or other emotional manipulation.

Interestingly a friend of mine was bought up by a very strict Athiest father who insisted she sat out of assembly and RE lessons etc etc.

She is now a devout Christian.

This sounds like a woman who is putting her personal Faith ahead of her family, not just now and then, but several times a week. Of course the children are revolting, and turning against religion - it is taking mum away from the family! Maybe she should try be a MUM on mothersday and stay home to be with her own children. - what a ridiculous statement, are you saying a mother shouldn't have any interests/hobbies/work etc that doesn't revolve entirely around her children? This woman is employed by the Church.

Perhaps they would compromise and go to church for mothers day if she was willing to compromise and spend some Sundays with them rather than insisting on going to church.

She needs to separate from her sons as they are growing up

Why on earth does getting upset because her sons wont come to church suggest to you she has problems "separating" from her children? They dont just hit the teenage years and you stop caring about your chidlren you know!

The OP's friend is not forcing them to attend church. They don't attend and she accepts this. What she is asking is that they go to a special service with her colleagues and friends. I don't think it's about forcing religion on them, it's about her and I think it's ok to ask your family to make it about you every now and again.

So, her DH " puts his foot down", and her teenage sons go to church next Sunday.

They moan, they frown, they sit their with faces like smacked arses.

Oh the joy your friend will experience.

My view is that as teens they have the right to choose whether they go to church or not however disappointing that might be for their mother. That's assuming they have decided against being Christian church goers. As someone with a faith would she want them to be hypocritical enough to go to church just so that she can have them at the Mothering Sunday service? I find that surprising.

If on the other hand they retain a christian faith but just can't be bothered to get up on a Sunday morning, that might be a different matter and an attempt to encourage them to see it from her point of view might be in order. I don't think you should be directly involved in this though.

One of the tasks of parenting teens is to grapple with the challenge of seeing your dc adopting views, attitudes and behaviours that you might not approve of. It's tough at times.

Your role is to listen to your friend, help her to see that she is raising fine independent young men and think of other ways in which she can enjoy the day with them

If you are a sensible friend you wouldn't be taking her 'side' or critisising her dcs and dh.

Your job as a friend is to listen and pehaps point out that religion is all about free choice. Her choice to attend is just as valid as their choice to abstain.

If you side with your friend to the point where you agree with her and not just support her then you are shit stirring.

If religious beliefs and attendance are not freely made then they are not valid and personally I would judge anyone making their children attend church,against their will,as abuse.

"I don't think it's about forcing religion on them, it's about her and I think it's ok to ask your family to make it about you every now and again."

Yes, of course, and if its about getting them to go to a restaurant they aren't keen on, or see a movie that doesn't excite them, that's one thing.

Its entirely another to expect them to go participate in a religious ritual that means nothing to them, or that they are possibly quite strongly against (by the time I was a teen, I had very strong anti-organised-religion feelings and participation in such an event would have made me feel an extreme hypocrite and as if I was buying into the whole organised oppression that church has orchestrated over the past hundreds of years.) It's very much not the same as eating Italian rather than French for some people.

And she does expect them to participate. They can't even lurk at the back quietly with their heads down - she wants them to come give her flowers. It's just not the same as being dragged to a dance show or a singing recital.

I think they have made a very mature decision to allow their teens to decide for themselves whether they think that the church is for them.

It's a shame she's so sad about their choice, but I think you should have a lot of respect for the fact that she has allowed them to make this choice themselves.

YABU to judge the teens, because it's their choice. But YANBU to feel sorry for her that she is sad they have made a different choice to her.

It really is their decision - and she would be well advised to pray for their enlightenment surely?

The kids can give her flowers at home and enjoy Mother's Day (which is a pile of tosh anyway) if it really matters that much. It's bad enough having all these commercial days forced upon us, without having church lumped on top

Enjoy my coffee I'm guessing you have teens

Your friend has clearly been very sound in letting her children decide for themselves. As with any person who finds their children having taken a path that is different from their own comforting way, she's entitled to feel sad now and then - be it religion, politics or football. You are being a good friend to let her confide in you. As a pp said, Mothering Sunday is paying respect to your home church. I expect it stirred up a lot of conflicting feelings in her. If making teens suck it up is too much to bear, I'd suggest lovely family day out and she can attend a lower key evening service or something. Much respect to your friend for not dragging her kids to church.

I agree with GooseyLoosey and am surprised at all the YABUs.

I'm as atheist as they come, but this is ONE occasion ONCE a year that OP's friend feels strongly about. It's not about forcing religious attendance on the DCs fgs - they have been free to not attend church since they were 7-8 years old, that sounds very fair to me.

I often had to do things I didn't particularly want to do as a teenager. I still do! Don't we all? For the people we care about?