to think my friend's children should go to church?

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Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

" In the 'parallel universe ' of MN it seems to be very upsetting if the child doesn't follow mother's ideas and belief system""

Where?

I'm not sure anyone with staunchly held beliefs wouldn't be affected by their children holding opposing ones, it seems unrealistic really. Even atheists! And a parents beliefs, especially if strongly held, will always impact on their children's. For example, if you are an atheist and critical of religion and disparaging of 'faith' it would be unlikely that your children wouldn't pick up on that, and vice versa. The only atheists I've known with DC (that doesn't mean everyone else is religious just the only ones I've known to identify themselves as atheist) influenced their children's opinions just as much as anyone else with strongly held beliefs.
I still can't see how going with their mum to church on mothers day is any different to going to the garden centre.

Hakluyt-you are on here a lot and you must have seen the many threads!!
I always think -have you actually asked the child if they want to/don't want to do.
The one sure thing is that everyone is free to make up their own mind-you can only control yourself-and no one does something because 'my mother thinks.......'
And yet it has already been stated on here that people who are free thinkers don't have a faith-it was because they were brought up that way-and yet my personal experience tells me that is a nonsense.
I was the generation that sang 'Onward Christian Soldiers' most weeks, had a religious assemble right through to 18yrs, went to Sunday school regularly etc etc and yet we all thought for ourselves-otherwise the churches would be full to bursting! Parents actually expected you to think for yourself and were not constantly worrying about indoctrination. There was no angst about Brownie church parade (new thread today) they were just pleased to have an hour free on Sunday morning!
I really don't see the big issue. OP's children have decided for themselves-a perfectly reasonable decision and I can't see why they would go because 'mother will be upset if they don't'. She might as well get used to it! At least her DH is not 'putting his foot down' and forcing them as OP wants-a totally pointless exercise.
My son gets married soon-it is not in a church-they are not Christians-if they have children they will not be christened or taken to church. So what? Am I supposed to put on the emotional blackmail that it will upset me? (it doesn't upset me by the way) .The one thing is for sure-their children have the same free choice and they can (and will) make up their own mind.
We have to respect other people's choices-even if we happen to have given them birth.
And MN most definitely is a parallel universe! It is what makes it so fascinating.

And a parents beliefs, especially if strongly held, will always impact on their children's.

Yes-it usually makes them even more the opposite.

I still can't see how going with their mum to church on mothers day is any different to going to the garden centre.

Maybe that is the problem. At least the teens in question realise that it is very different.

Apart from the fact that as they are teenagers there is absolutely no reason they have to go to a garden centre when they could stay at home and cook the lunch.

YANBU- totally agree with you

How?? What magical stuff happens there that I've missed? You stand up, you sit down, you open and close books and bow your head when indicated. When I was a teen it was just like going to the garden centre, bloody dull! When you go to church, nothing happens!!

Why mamasilla? Are they supposed to go on all occasions their mother would like it? To what purpose? For ever?

Why do you think, Mehit that most religious people in THIS country are Christians? Why do you think most religious people in India are Hindus? Muslims in Saudi Arabia?

Coincidence?

Of course parental influence is largely responsible for faith. I fail to see how anyone could possibly deny that.

And faith cannot possibly be reached through freethinking. The two things are mutually exclusive.

Freethinking = I'll wait for evidence and suspend judgement

Faith = Never mind evidence (or lack of it) I shall believe anyway.

Atheists ARE freethinkers and the majority strive very hard to ensure their children are given balanced information and the freedom to make up their own minds. (Lots of religious parents try to do the same too, to be fair...but not all).

But the bottom line is, unless you have someone you respect and love telling you that a man really did rise from the dead or split the moon in half with a sword, you are actually very unlikely to believe that it's true.

Religious folktales really are remarkably silly unless you've grown up drenched in them.

Was it supposed to be exciting, theend?
If I had views like that I would refuse to visit a church or garden centre again! Not go through an experience that was pointless to me just so as not to upset my mother. Or is there a cut off point? Do you never upset your mother by thinking differently- or is she supposed to accept it by 18yrs-30 yrs or do you wait until she is dead?!

You are free thinking by having a faith.

Yes, I am here a lot. And I have never seen a thread where an atheist didn't want their child to be told about God.

Of course people are influenced by the way they are brought up, but among the people I know not one person who was born a catholic is now a practicing catholic and the majority who went to Sunday school, were confirmed etc are not practicing Christians. The ones that I do know who are very committed Christians came to it later in life.

I would agree with that-although there is at least one person, who I won't name, of the magic bunny view, who would see it as a pointless exercise.

Sorry-in reply to Hakluyt.

Well I'm over 30 now and I still go to church on occassion to make my mother happy and have no shame in it. The garden centre is no longer a chore. I think my mum is fairly aware of beliefs, or otherwise. They bear no relevance though to whether I attend church with her occasionally. I go to go with her, not to save my soul, she's just happy to spend time together doing something she enjoys, and for me that's good enough.

"MN is awash with atheists who can't take their child being told about God- apparently it is brainwashing and their child is too stupid to make their own judgements!"

So you've changed your mind since you posted this?

There is a difference between going because you want to please her than having the emotional screw tightened that she will be upset if you don't. I bet you wouldn't if your father 'put his foot down' and forced you!

I have cut down my time on MN I had forgotten that you had to be so precise in meaning or it will be picked apart.

theendoftheendoftheend, I did the same when my mother was alive. She knew I was not a believer. It just felt companionable to join her three or four times a year.

I think I was lucky that she went to a church with a good organ and choir so the music was enjoyable. The vicar preached thought-provoking sermons which you didn't have to be a Christian to find interesting.

You made a very definite statement- atheists have a problem with their children being told about God. You were asked for examples. You said Mumsnet was "awash" with them. You were asked to provide one example. You are now playing the "poor me being got at" line. A bit pathetic really.

Your few examples do not contradict the overwhelming evidence that people of faith learn it from their parents.

And people of faith may well be freethinkers, but not when it comes to their faith.

Not sure why your personal choices are relevant, theendof. That works for you? Marvellous. Do you therefore think everyone - including the teenagers in question - should start thinking like you? Or would you be OK with them deciding for themselves?

And again with the comparisons?! Church is in no way like bingo, the garden centre or having tea with Nan on Sundays.

Church is a building dedicated to the worship of a fictional entity where people go to talk to him/her/it. NO ONE should be obliged to attend for someone else's sake. Ever. If they choose to, fine. That is their decision to make. "Do it for mummy" is emotional blackmail. And, sorry, cannot possibly be compared to Mum washing rugby kit at the weekend (another appalling comparison someone tried).

I will just be pathetic then. I don't think it fair to name names if they are not on this thread-which they are not.
Awash was a silly term-I think we can all be prone to exaggeration at times! (I will try not to in future)

It is all by the by. The OP was about teenage boys who have decided they are not Christians and don't want to go to church. No reason for making them is put forward, except for the emotional blackmail of 'upsetting mother' -who is going to have to be upset one day. OP thinks the father should force them-to what end I have no idea-it is hardly going to get the desired effect of making them want to go to church of their own free will!

Aside from all that I really can't see your average teenage boy wanting to line up with all the children from toddlers up to be given a small posy of flowers to present to mother. Much better to organise their own at home.

grovel it's not that bad is it? My mum's old vicar was also a really lovely chap. Maybe we were lucky to have good experiences.

Alpha courses run all over the country -largely for people who have not learned a faith from parents.
Part of the problem is that people are all for free thinkers as long as they follow their lines-they have decided God is a fictional being and therefore anyone who thinks not is not a free thinker!
Anyway-his has reminded me why I try and keep off MN-I get drawn into wasting time on fascinating but pointless arguments!
Last word-YABU ClassicTron.