to think my friend's children should go to church?

[ClassicTron]

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

I don't think it is confined to parents of faith- atheists seem to struggle with their child wanting to attend church.

Funny how many parents are proud to have 'free thinking' children- unless the thinking happens to be opposed to their own!

"I don't think it is confined to parents of faith- atheists seem to struggle with their child wanting to attend church."

Do they? Any examples?

There may be caffe but that's not what the op says, just a mum wishing her DC would do something she'd like to do on mothers day (this is when it becomes apparent I haven't read the full thread!) which to me seems reasonable, whether it's go to church or go to the garden centre.

I keep hearing that, Mehit but I see no actual evidence of it.

I know loads of atheist parents, and I read even more online about this very issue and there seems to be a general consensus across the board that children should be supported if they choose to follow a faith.

Bear in mind though, that without the brainwashing - or religious "teaching" - children of the faithful are subjected to, very few of them have the slightest interest in becoming believers themselves.

Faith is a learned thing, usually.

(Cue lots of Christians telling me they had atheist parents and used to be atheists themselves until they found the Lord).

Well, except the teenagers took this 'stand' not to go at a very young age, it wasn't near adults that stopped going to church, but 8 year olds. To a certain extent, that had to be the mother's choice not to force her religion on her DCs, to let them make their own choices. (and for the atheist Dad to give up his "sunday mornings off" he must have had up to that point if his DW was taking the DCs out to church every week before then!).

It's understandable, I think, if you've been really accepting and supportive of your DCs from a relatively young age making their own choices, to still be upset that those own choices don't extend to them putting you first some times.

As they were young when they stopped going to church, there's also a good chance that the DCs don't really get that the Mothering Sunday service is usually a family service that's all focussed on thanking mothers where you normally find whole families sat together, they might not really remember it. At that point, it would be nice if the Friend's DH actually sat the teens down and explained it might be nice for their mum to go, but you can't really expect the normal self absorbed teen to spontaniously think "I wonder if the mothering sunday service is a big deal for mums?" if they've not gone for 5/6/7 years.

If she's not made them go since they were very little, the fact that their Mum is one of the only ones sat alone might not occur to them. Right now, it's just something their mum does that their dad and they don't.

I think the OP's friend is getting a hard time here, she's allowed her children completely free choice from a young age, given them a grounding in her beliefs and accepted they don't share them - she's allowed to be upset to her friends that her DCs don't share her views, it's not like she's made them go for years when they've not wanted to. She's acted very well, and doesn't sound like she will make them go on Sunday either as the OP said she's planning on missing it rather than be alone, and there's no indication that she's cried on her DCs, just her friend.

Yes, please read the whole thread, theend. This has been addressed.

Hakylut what sort of examples are you looking for? Famous ones? Documented ones? Anecdotal?

Just any sort of example of atheists having a problem with their children going to church. Mehitabel suggested it was a common occurance.....

MN is awash with atheists who can't take their child being told about God- apparently it is brainwashing and their child is too stupid to make their own judgements!

Caffe - I've met quite a lot of Christians who were either brought up with no faith or a different faith (there seems to be loads round here!). Don't think any became Christians while still children though.

Find us one, Mehit. Just one.

I have never once seen that attitude displayed by any atheist on these boards.

Most (including me) would be on that like a shot.

"MN is awash with atheists who can't take their child being told about God- apparently it is brainwashing and their child is too stupid to make their own judgements!"

I have never met an atheist who didn't want their child to be told about God. Are you perhaps mistaking "told about" with "being expected to worship"?

Well, Mary we can all find anecdotal "evidence" disproving pretty much any idea.

Overwhelmingly, Christians/Muslims/Hindus etc came from families of that faith. Overwhelmingly.

That says too much for the odd contrary example to contradict.

But I'll bung one in for you....my brother in law, brought up secular, now a Christian.

But I still stand by the basic point.

I don't have a problem with my children going to church or doing anything churchy. However, there are loads of things I don't do with them because I'm not particularly interested. I don't take them to a mosque or synagogue or netball matches either.

I don't think there is anything particularly surprising about the fact that religious people tend to come from religious families. Children who sail tend to come from sailing families and children who play cricket tend to come from cricket loving families.

That's not the same thing at all, Merrymouse.

Playing netball and sailing is not a blueprint of rules for how to live your life, plus a skewed and wrong understanding of how the universe works.

Religion is a category all of it's own, and I find these attempts to downplay it by likening it to netball, sailing or bingo frankly ludicrous.

Religion provides a worldview and tells people what to think. Not only that it makes a virtue out of not questioning, calling it "faith".

Netball????

Oh, and I never said I was surprised. I was making the point that faith is almost always learned and not usually a position reached through freethinking.

Strange then that most of my friends with a faith have reached it through free thinking and were not brought up that way.

I am astonished at some of these replies. There was a post recently from a mother who said she spent time taking her child to football practices and games but really hated watching football so rarely watched the games games. She was given quite hard time about it by many people qwho said she should show interest in what was important to her children sometimes even if she wasn't interested. There is something to be said for that view

Is this not something we should teach our children to do as well as they get older or is it all one sided? This mother has NOT forced her children to attend church or forced her religious beliefs on them but it would be nice if they could show that they care about her enough to attend once service a year with her. Just because she is their mother and it would make her happy.

Still waiting for examples of atheists who refuse to allow their children to be told about God- shouldn't be hard- Mumsnet is apparantly awash with them....

I was forced to go to church as a child. Both parents are evangelical Christians and I decided to get baptised at 8. I made the choice by myself, but I have no idea what I thought at the time - who knows, maybe I just wanted to go in the large pool of water which I had seen others do.

Now I am agnostic and critical of religion and the church. I like to use the word religion because that is what it is. I have noticed many Christians hate having their belief described as such and wouldn't say they are religious. They tend to say instead that they have a relationship with God.

The Christians I know are quite divisive and preachy (constantly telling me to get married and have children, as well as the usual religious stuff!)

In RL I only know atheists with children who are Christians- the bottom hasn't fallen out of their world! In the 'parallel universe ' of MN it seems to be very upsetting if the child doesn't follow mother's ideas and belief system"

Easter is bound to produce threads where atheist parents are not happy.

Hakluyt - not exactly what you asked for, but this thread might be the type Mehitable meant. (although everyone on the thread pretty much agreed the OP was bonkers !)

Not exactly "awash", Mehitabel?