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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To suspect SIL has said something awful to DD who is 6?

176 replies

Gooogle · 03/03/2015 00:59

To give some background, I had a very long thread about my husband's family, in particular my mother in law, a few months ago. It was called Utterly Depressed about my MIL. Sorry I don't know how to post a link.

Briefly, huge back history of MIL (and to some extent, SIL), wanting to be Mum to my DD who is 6 yrs old.

I have limited all contact - no texts or calls. We have to visit them every couple of months if there is a family occasion. I keep it friendly and pretend. Try not to say much. When I do speak MIL ignores me in a lovely passive aggressive way. It's like a stupid act we all put on.

DH saw a counsellor. He now sees that his DM dislikes me. That's huge progress. I am much happier, as the balance has shifted and now MIL would not dare to overstep the mark with me. She may well still bitch about me (I am sure she does!). But I really don't care.

Now I'm worried about my SIL. She is in her 40's, desperate to meet someone and marry, have a DC. Career that didn't go well, still relies on her parents for financial support. As the years go by she gets more and more sad/bitter and naturally there is a little bit of resentment towards me as I have DH and DD.

We visited PIL at the weekend, SIL was there. SIL had also seen DD the previous week. SIL tells me while we were at PIL's house, that my DD had told her the previous week that she was lonely and often has no one to play with. Apparently DD said she felt sad all the time. In reality my DD has friends and cousins to play every other day and spends lots of lovely time with me too. DD talks to me when she has a problem, and she has never told me she is lonely.

On the way home from PIL this week end, DD had a huge, HUGE emotional outburst. She was crying and her world was ending. Everything seemed to be wrong, DD said she had a terrible and awful life, never had anyone to play with, had to help me with chores all the time (hardly! She has the chores of making her bed and tidying her toys once a week). Everything was awful, no one gives her any attention.

I have never heard DD speak like this before. Never seen her in such a state either.

While we were at PIL, my SIL had taken her upstairs to have a chat. She often does this and I dislike it because I worry about what she may be saying to her.

SIL is very emotionally immature and she would like to feel she is closer to my DD than I am.

I have concerns about what SIL said to my DD. DD's outburst on the way home may be completely unrelated to her secret chat with SIL but I am worried they are linked.

My thoughts are that SIL has somehow manipulated DD into thinking all the things that came spilling out when she was crying on the way home. Could that be it? Feel sick thinking about having to now manage my DD around another member of the family.

OP posts:
mommy2ash · 03/03/2015 01:04

im not sure if you sil said anything to her i guess it is impossible for anyone to know. can you ask her nicely what she and sil talk about?

my dd is eight and is an only child, has loads of friends, playdates sleepovers parties cousins etc but has the odd outburst of being upset about being terribly lonely. it could equally be an only child thing.

i would try talk to your dd.

MrsTerryPratchett · 03/03/2015 01:07

No matter what happened the three things that stand out to me are;

  1. Never let your DD be alone with someone you are very uncomfortable with.
  1. Validate her emotions and let her talk abut what is wrong. Open questions and neutral time chats.
  1. Talk to DD about appropriate/inappropriate things. How to deal with conversations, touching, situations that don't feel safe. What to do if she feels unsafe and that you will always listen and try to understand (see 2!).
Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 01:08

I haven't mentioned this so as not to give myself away in RL but not an only child.

I will ask, but I don't know how much I will get out of her.

I might ask SIL if she thinks she could have said anything to upset DD. Or i might need some suggestions with how to word that so as not to offend SIL!

OP posts:
EstRusMum · 03/03/2015 01:09

This one? I actually read it through in December. Wink

CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 03/03/2015 01:11

Noooo!! If SiL is playing games, you don't want to engage by speaking to her about what she may be talking about with DD

MrsTP has good advice , and I also second the pp that said even children with lots of friends etc sometimes have a little wobble

Focus on supporting DD rather than trying to get SiL to admit to doing something then stopping it

Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 01:16

Knowing my SIL I can guess the kind of thing she may have said.

"Do you have a best friend at school? Why don't you? Ohhhhh :-( Does that make you sad? (Big sad face) Etc"

This leads my DD to then worry and feel bad about it when she has previously felt fine about having lots of friends instead of just one.

I have heard my SIL say similar in front of me, and I have loudly said "DD has LOTS of really good friends!".

MrsTerry, thank you for the sound advice. At a loss with how to explain manipulative questioning and comments to a 6 year old though.

I could simply ask if she feels happy or worried/sad after talking to her Aunty?

OP posts:
Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 01:19

EstRusMum, that's the one. Thank you for linking.

OP posts:
Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 01:24

The real purpose of me asking SIL about it would be to let her know I am aware something is not right. I am aware she may be saying manipulative things.

OP posts:
MiscellaneousAssortment · 03/03/2015 01:31

Wow that's a hard one. Children are led by the adults around them, and if someone is eroding their confidence and sense of what is normal, that needs to stop somehow... For example, child is happy with 3 close friends, but then child is told that it's not enough and everyone has more and she will be lonely and others will see she doesn't have friends etc etc etc... Then the child will unsurprisingly feel insecure and worried, and accept their new perspective as reality unless they have a reason why not, or a stronger sense of reality to fall back on.

Can you get her to open up at all? Would be much easier to deal with if you know what you're fighting?

Other than that start strongly reorientating her in what's normal, and what's great about her world, whilst keeping it open to ideas to help her and build confidence etc.

TendonQueen · 03/03/2015 01:42

Seconding the point that if you feel uncomfortable with SIL taking DD off for chats like this, it should not be happening. Either avoid going there for a bit or step in when she tries it next time and say firmly you want DD to have time with everyone while she's there and not to go off. That will tell SIL you know something is not right without you asking her questions.

fizzycolagurlie · 03/03/2015 01:50

MrsTerryPratchett has the right of it.

I would strongly recommend you do not talk to your SIL. It validates what she has been doing, it gives her a sense of influence. Your strongest stance is to ignore it and not allow it to happen again (no private chats thank you). You don't need to have a bust up or a scene. Just be firm.

It does sound like you and your DH have made huge strides in gaining your own space and privacy and most importantly, family, away from the toxic ones. Well done for that.

MidniteScribbler · 03/03/2015 02:21

I wouldn't bother talking to her, but I would make sure that there are no more opportunities for 'secret' chats.

however · 03/03/2015 03:56

I wouldn't bother talking to her, either. Not unless my daughter repeated something specific, and inappropriate.

And if I did, I wouldn't be worried about offending her!

Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 06:23

I free that talking to SIL will not be helpful. It will also give her validation.

I have to remember that SIL's idea of love comes from her own mother, who uses her daughter to emotionally manipulate other members of the family. It's not healthy. MIL thinks love equals making your children responsible for your happiness.

I would like to stop DD going off with SIL. But sometimes it is hard when there are 20 people in a house. I don't always realise they have disappeared off. Also, my DD may even tell me she wants to only be with her Aunty in front of her. DD thinks SIL is 'cool' because she gives her make up and sweets all the time. DD also knows SIL will never tell her off for anything.

OP posts:
Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 06:30

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can say to DD? He I can explain someone questioning you and making you doubt yourself is manipulation? It is hard for adults to spot this happening, let alone a 6 year old!

I will ask her gently what SIL said/asked her when they were alone. I am inclined to say something like SIL says silly things sometimes. She doesn't have a best friend herself so it is silly she thinks you should have one!

OP posts:
DustBunnyFarmer · 03/03/2015 06:34

The way you describe the SIL's behaviour (sweets, make up etc) sounds like grooming, albeit with an emotional impetus rather than a sinister sexual one. Maybe this is one of those teachable moments, when you could help your daughter to understand that not all flattery and interest comes from a good place. It's tricky, though, because you don't want your daughter to feel unlikeable or used either. Very tricky.

hestialou · 03/03/2015 06:41

Very tricky, Can you avoid next couple of times to give dd time away from sil. Say she is ill and let dh go alone. Or talk to dd beforehand and say that fine to talk to aunty but she has to stay with sight?

clearasmud · 03/03/2015 06:42

What mrsterrypratchett said and don't even think about discussing it with SIL.
Children of this age can be very easily manipulated and I would be doing everything I could not to allow private conversations between DC and SIL in the nicest way possible.
Thank your daughter for doing her chores and tell her what a big girl she is for helping. At the end of the day ask her if she was happy to play with her cousins / friends. Ask her how many play dates she had this week. Highlight reality and the positives of what you think may have been said in a conversation with SIL.
Also consider that what she said about loneliness might be that she wants more attention from you. If you feel that this is not correct, recap the day you've had at bed time and ask if she had fun doing whatever you did together that day.

Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 06:43

It is all bought to gain favour and a special place in DD's heart. I also don't want DD to think I am distancing her from the other females in the family. Understandably, she loves being around her cool Aunty who has far more make up/jewellery/glam than me! To a 6 year old this stuff is magical. I think much of it is vacuous, teaches vanity at an unreasonably young age, and that there are more interesting and exciting things to do together.

Having said that, she will thank me when she is an adult for keeping her at arms length from all the crazy.

OP posts:
TheRealAmandaClarke · 03/03/2015 06:46

What mrstp said
Listen to your dd
Dont expect to gather "evidence", its enough to hear what she says iyswim
Dont engage with sil.

Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 06:49

Yes she may want more time with me and I have stared to do that more this week. And will make it a regular weekly time together.

I hate having to deal with this. MIL and SIL wanting to come between me and DD. Exhausting dealing with them and trying to second guess what tactic they will try next. MIL sits back now, and it is as if she has handed the reins to SIL. It used to be my MIL that would whisk DD away for private chats and say things like, "your mummy doesn't let me see you enough and that makes me sad".

OP posts:
Original poster
Gooogle · 03/03/2015 06:53

It's not me I need the evidence for. It is my DH. He will never accept SIL is subtly doing this. He also doesn't see any subtle behaviour. It needs to hit him like a brick for him to see what is happening right in front of him. It took nearly 10 years for him to see that his mother doesn't like me. Or at least admit it to himself and face the reality.

OP posts:
base9 · 03/03/2015 06:59

I would tell her the absolute truth: sil is trying to make you feel bad. Explain the manipulation in the sinplest possible terms and name the culprit. Tell her that some people have severe emotional problems and while they need our support, we have to be very caeful about believing what they say. Get dh on side. And then stop taking her anywhere near sil.
As for the loneliness, just let her explain. She may well feel lonely sometimes. It is good that she can tell you.

Hissy · 03/03/2015 07:00

That family is toxic to you so therefore even more so to your dd.

By insisting on enabling contact, you're allowing her to be groomed by a woman who only has her own warped interacts at heart.

Stop the contact now!

You don't power them a thing, and contact with these other females on the family will fuck up your family.

People like your Inlaws bank on the fact that you won't make a big deal over everything and so continue undermining you and wrecking your family slowly while you stand by.

Wake up. This is important. The stakes are massive, you will possibly lose your dd to them.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 03/03/2015 07:04

It mustbe very hard for you. And so frustrating with your DH not seeing what you see.
Deciphering the experiences of children and the meaning of wht they tell us is a difficult task. Even for professionals.
So the listening and being available advice upthread is apt.

I wonder if its worth just saying to him something like "dd was very upset after thelast visit. I assume neither of us wants that so i'm going to stay close to her next time so she doesnt feel overwhelmed" or some such.