To suspect SIL has said something awful to DD who is 6?

[Gooogle]

To give some background, I had a very long thread about my husband's family, in particular my mother in law, a few months ago. It was called Utterly Depressed about my MIL. Sorry I don't know how to post a link.

Briefly, huge back history of MIL (and to some extent, SIL), wanting to be Mum to my DD who is 6 yrs old.

I have limited all contact - no texts or calls. We have to visit them every couple of months if there is a family occasion. I keep it friendly and pretend. Try not to say much. When I do speak MIL ignores me in a lovely passive aggressive way. It's like a stupid act we all put on.

DH saw a counsellor. He now sees that his DM dislikes me. That's huge progress. I am much happier, as the balance has shifted and now MIL would not dare to overstep the mark with me. She may well still bitch about me (I am sure she does!). But I really don't care.

Now I'm worried about my SIL. She is in her 40's, desperate to meet someone and marry, have a DC. Career that didn't go well, still relies on her parents for financial support. As the years go by she gets more and more sad/bitter and naturally there is a little bit of resentment towards me as I have DH and DD.

We visited PIL at the weekend, SIL was there. SIL had also seen DD the previous week. SIL tells me while we were at PIL's house, that my DD had told her the previous week that she was lonely and often has no one to play with. Apparently DD said she felt sad all the time. In reality my DD has friends and cousins to play every other day and spends lots of lovely time with me too. DD talks to me when she has a problem, and she has never told me she is lonely.

On the way home from PIL this week end, DD had a huge, HUGE emotional outburst. She was crying and her world was ending. Everything seemed to be wrong, DD said she had a terrible and awful life, never had anyone to play with, had to help me with chores all the time (hardly! She has the chores of making her bed and tidying her toys once a week). Everything was awful, no one gives her any attention.

I have never heard DD speak like this before. Never seen her in such a state either.

While we were at PIL, my SIL had taken her upstairs to have a chat. She often does this and I dislike it because I worry about what she may be saying to her.

SIL is very emotionally immature and she would like to feel she is closer to my DD than I am.

I have concerns about what SIL said to my DD. DD's outburst on the way home may be completely unrelated to her secret chat with SIL but I am worried they are linked.

My thoughts are that SIL has somehow manipulated DD into thinking all the things that came spilling out when she was crying on the way home. Could that be it? Feel sick thinking about having to now manage my DD around another member of the family.

Hissy - I agree if OP can get her DH to agree to NC would be easiest all round.

I found with my DH that wasn't an option. Left me going NC and therefore putting strain on my marriage - something at time MIL has stated openly she wanted - or letting her have DH and the DC and excluding me something she made obvious she wanted.

As it is I'm around and she is polite - or I'm not -and I can see any interactions with the DC I can and do pull her, and indeed FIL, up on.

Its the subtle stuff I find hard. Blatant ignoring isn't permitted by us- but it's stuff like not specially inviting that DC to something - so DH or I have to step in with and with and x DC as well - then it all of course. Birthday for x aren't ignored but presents are less thought through for that DC and I think often slightly less money spent - though not obvious all very subtle but visible not just to me- every so often we have to have a word and the it's fine for ages.

OP sweet problem wouldn't phase me - you throw it back at them - well GM knew not to offer you x or Y at this time and on the occasion GM said well no I didn't it was well you should have had curtsy to ask - and then repeat at every whine like a broken record. I've done it in front of a room full of people and it wasn't me who ended up embarrassed.

BeyondRepair I had visits where I've seen everything MIL has said to eldest and no idea what sets it off - I think it more subtle than what's said. MIL somehow feed normal daily frustrations and upsets often by behaviour rather than any specific comment you could challenge.

OP honestly if you can go NC do - just it's not always as straightforward as many posters suggested IME.

In relation to your sil's twisted questioning, just tell her nothing, or lie. I took this approach with my mil. I never told her if I was feeling unwell, or upset about something, as it would often come back to haunt me. She had a habit of making a throw away remark on my part into something much bigger than it really was.

I generally got along with her, but knew she was a gossip and liked to involve herself when things weren't going so well. It did cut down the things we could talk about, and I found I edited my conversations with her. It doesn't sound like this would be too much of an issue for you with your in-laws, so might be worth a try, if you're not doing it already.

you throw it back at them - well GM knew not to offer you x or Y at this time and on the occasion GM said well no I didn't it was well you should have had curtsy to ask - and then repeat at every whine like a broken record. I've done it in front of a room full of people and it wasn't me who ended up embarrassed

perfect response op.

found with my DH that wasn't an option. Left me going NC and therefore putting strain on my marriage - something at time MIL has stated openly she wanted - or letting her have DH and the DC and excluding me something she made obvious she wanted.

I sort of have this problem too, dammed if do and dont but being around my pils makes me feel so utterly miserable and I hate seeing them with my darling DC as pils stand for everything we dont!

I did speak to DD today. MIL and SIL have both asked what presents they can buy her. DD said she didn't know, nothing she could think of. She has everything she wants.

SIL also asked about school repeatedly. Led DD into thinking she doesn't have enough friendships or needs different types of friendships. DD said she felt fed up when SIL asks her about friendships. SIL led DD into thinking loneliness was something she should be concerned about/worrying about. As in DD could be lonely. She also asked whether mummy plays with her.

I have told my DH everything and he surprised me - no battles, no finding excuses. He just really disliked that SIL appears to be putting her needs for a 'close relationship' with our DD before DD's actual emotional wellbeing. SIL was happy to create anxiety and worry for DD if it meant she could step in and be her support. Emotional grooming? Is that what this is?

Yes. To be followed by 'alienation of affection'. Bottom line, your daughter needs protecting, it is emotionally abusive behaviour.

Yes Gooogle I'm afraid it is.

Gooogle Im' glad you got to the bottom of it and that your DH is supporting you.

What is alienation of affection? Withholding affection when/if DD displeases them??

You need to step away from this situation and make sure SIL never gets chance to play these poisonous games again. She is just plain evil. Time to be super-mum and make sure your daughter is protected from this crap.

Alienation of affection is your SIL putting your DD off her mum and dad - turning her affection away from you, and onto herself.

I don't think you need to worry about that happening, you've nipped it in the bud.

Thank you. That is awful.

I Ian see they indirectly plant those seeds in DD. DH told me that when I was out of the room, MIL repeated the same sentence to DD 3 or 4 times. "You are so much like your Aunty. You are so much like your Aunty ". Then she went on to attribute her characteristics to my SIL. None to DD's mother or father!

DD does know something not quite right with me and DH's family. I am not sure she knows how to process it.

Wtaf? The repeated comment is beyond creepy, they are trying to break your relationship with your child for their own gains.

Absolutely grooming, absolutely alienation of affection. Go absolutely zero contact with them where you dd is concerned.

MIL has been rolling that comment out to DD all her life :-(

Along with "grandmother loves you more than anyone else in the whole world" (I love you more than your mum and dad love you).

When DD is naughty and I tell her not to do something, MIL and SIL say "ohhhhh that's ok". It's fine to behave like that DD! We won't tell you off.

Do you think I should try to help DD recognise these comments when they arise?

Would I be helping her in the long term or creating anxiety for her as a 6 year old. If I say too much about SIL and MIL to DD I may push her towards feeling sorry for them? She is a child who is concerned that those around her are happy and tries to help her friends, puts others before herself.

I would have thought that you could say things about DSIL in a pitying way in DDs hearing, perhaps to DP.

Poor SIL, wants to have children but she's still single, Shame SIL can't afford a house and is still living with her parents at that age, sad that SIL has such a crummy job.

Then she won't be so admiring of her (and maybe less influenced).

I'm sure someone will post that that's wrong but I can remember being very influenced by things I overheard adults saying when I was a child.

Children sense undercurrents of emotions in a situation, they don't understand them.

For the love of all things please keep your child away from this woman.

If you removed the "in law" from your post I could have written it. My own sister behaved exactly like this to my children. The gifts, the make up, the being the cool auntie who never said no, the undermining me, the planting of seeds of doubt and confusion. My sister was diagnosed as a narcissist but not before she'd all but destroyed the relationship between me and my children and our father too and I'd moved 200 miles away to distance my DC and I from her.

You don't need to justify. You don't need to explain. You don't need to answer to anyone. This is your daughter, you must protect her. Please, if you've any backbone at all, stand up for her and for yourself and simply refuse to take your daughter where this woman will be.

Sadly, I agree with Hissy that they are grooming her and that is their script.

Your SIL reminds me of my aunt who tried to get me to agree to live with her, when I was 11. I just went along with what she was saying to me when we went on little trips together just to be polite. Eventually she showed her hand at a family gathering and stated that "Blue wants to live with me, and Granny agrees". Needless to say my Granny was the "dominant matriarch" of the family, like your MIL.

You will have to do your best to go NC with them. I think your daughter is too young to see what they are doing to her, but it is badly affecting her.

Keep your DD busy at the weekend and spending her time with her you and your DH and other children, and not these poisonous bitches.

I didn't take my aunts comments about living with her seriously, it was stuff like "If you lived with me we could go to the beach and have an ice cream at the weekend" etc

What is alienation of affection? Withholding affection when/if DD displeases them??

No. In this context it means that they are seeking to supplant your natural place, as parents, in your child's affection. Instead of your child looking to you as a primary source of comfort, guidance and knowledge, MiL/SiL are deliberately undermining your role so that the child will start to turn to them as primary influence.

Do you think I should try to help DD recognise these comments when they arise?

Yes. I've challenged blatant stuff like that - favourite one was wouldn't think I was eldest mother - often find pictures where we are the spitting image of each other when young and have them handy.

In your case something every time like oh really everyone else says she so like DH or like another relative or no - no DD is such a happy DC - not like SIL at all or you keep saying that but your the only one who sees it.

If you've got your DH on side OP - do try and talk about NC at very least space visits out more and more - cut them shorter - and police them better - in short term get very busy as an initial strategy.

I have found while I'm not challenged directly anymore regularly - though it happens out of blue - the same stuff is going on with change in tactics.

The helpful guise was/is a hard one for me as DH doesn't often see it.

An example I do thinking, planning prep for an activity MIL sweeps in does fun stuff just before I finish prep- and I end up with clean up - then MIL goes on and on with DC about what she did with them - but of you say anything she was being helpful. Occasionally would be fine but it's not.

The sudden taking DC out to park 10 minutes before she knows food being dished up - and not having phone on - when my back turned having mentioned idea vaguely at DH or just FIL. Then getting handed back tried, dirty hungry crabby DC much later - that one she knows is overstepping but she occasionally tries to pull it as her being helpful.

Same with days out - the don't get information from me but DH in conversations - so they turn up - and somehow I get to be one paying or sitting with bags or younger DC. They got one trip that was important to me post postponed for years - as they really wanted to go there with us so every time we started planning DH would want to wait for them. Ended up going by myself with the DC on a teacher training day.

I've come to realise there is a lot of self promoting going on - DC mention a trip taken without IL - MIL will go on and on about one done with them. I can't do something for the DC - like go on a school trip - MIL then goes on and on about how she always did with her DC - and then months later an another trip I have an upset DC who was previously fine about
situation.

They won't change who they are - you can have strategies for managing them but they won't stop.

OP, I don't want to post my experiences here as I'm really worried about outing myself (which should give you some insight as to the damage relationships like this can cause, as I'm in middle age and still fearful of setting off an argument) but can I strongly urge you, if you haven't already, to show your DH this thread? It's fabulous that he's onside but I think the experiences of adults, who experienced this kind of stuff as children from relations is really important to drive home the impact on your DD.

You need to stop. I think it sounds like SIL is on a happy little route to making thins up to social services/schools etc.
do not allow her to be alone with dd, if she tries to take her upstairs you go too.
You need to stop seeing her and protect your child

Do you think I should try to help DD recognise these comments when they arise?

you need to show her that people say things to get what they want, and often it's not in our best interests.

but that is AFTER you tell mil and sil to FTFO and NEVER allow contact again.

as your DD grows older, you tell her more age appropropriate details, but the long and the short of it being that some people do have bad intentions and they need to be avoided where possible.

I agree, you need to bring DH up to speed pronto, what these women are doing is placing your relationships with him and your DD in really grave danger.

I feel a mixture of fear, anger, horror and relief at finally having a label for this behaviour that has been making me uncomfortable for so long. I am no stranger to this type of behaviour - growing up I also had an older female family figure who did something kind of similar in some ways.

Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. I am actually worried and fearful now. I see the very real danger, and I see the damage that has already been done.

Twisted little witches the pair of them.