To suspect SIL has said something awful to DD who is 6?

[Gooogle]

To give some background, I had a very long thread about my husband's family, in particular my mother in law, a few months ago. It was called Utterly Depressed about my MIL. Sorry I don't know how to post a link.

Briefly, huge back history of MIL (and to some extent, SIL), wanting to be Mum to my DD who is 6 yrs old.

I have limited all contact - no texts or calls. We have to visit them every couple of months if there is a family occasion. I keep it friendly and pretend. Try not to say much. When I do speak MIL ignores me in a lovely passive aggressive way. It's like a stupid act we all put on.

DH saw a counsellor. He now sees that his DM dislikes me. That's huge progress. I am much happier, as the balance has shifted and now MIL would not dare to overstep the mark with me. She may well still bitch about me (I am sure she does!). But I really don't care.

Now I'm worried about my SIL. She is in her 40's, desperate to meet someone and marry, have a DC. Career that didn't go well, still relies on her parents for financial support. As the years go by she gets more and more sad/bitter and naturally there is a little bit of resentment towards me as I have DH and DD.

We visited PIL at the weekend, SIL was there. SIL had also seen DD the previous week. SIL tells me while we were at PIL's house, that my DD had told her the previous week that she was lonely and often has no one to play with. Apparently DD said she felt sad all the time. In reality my DD has friends and cousins to play every other day and spends lots of lovely time with me too. DD talks to me when she has a problem, and she has never told me she is lonely.

On the way home from PIL this week end, DD had a huge, HUGE emotional outburst. She was crying and her world was ending. Everything seemed to be wrong, DD said she had a terrible and awful life, never had anyone to play with, had to help me with chores all the time (hardly! She has the chores of making her bed and tidying her toys once a week). Everything was awful, no one gives her any attention.

I have never heard DD speak like this before. Never seen her in such a state either.

While we were at PIL, my SIL had taken her upstairs to have a chat. She often does this and I dislike it because I worry about what she may be saying to her.

SIL is very emotionally immature and she would like to feel she is closer to my DD than I am.

I have concerns about what SIL said to my DD. DD's outburst on the way home may be completely unrelated to her secret chat with SIL but I am worried they are linked.

My thoughts are that SIL has somehow manipulated DD into thinking all the things that came spilling out when she was crying on the way home. Could that be it? Feel sick thinking about having to now manage my DD around another member of the family.

If OP was to ever split up I bet dollars to donuts that that little girl would spend a lot of time with those women without anyone to witness what was going on. Her DH would probably be overwhelmed and turn to the very people who were falling over themselves to be sympathetic and say what he wants to hear

This is exactly what would happen in my own situ too.

Neither he nor the dc would stand a chance as they have no morals, integrity or boundaries.

plumping Thank you for clarifying, that sounds awful, awful.

The DD will learn from her mum's example how to smile nicely and not let twats drag you down even when you can't escape them

^ this though is ops problem, the dd doesnt see the gp or aunt dragging her down, ops DD thinks they are great!

Sadly, the smiling nicely just enables them, better role model is to define boundaries and defend them, understanding that you/everyone has the right to do so.

The water of a ducks back approach enables these people and fails to challenge them to stop abusive behaviour

I'd also refuse to believe the "acting out" stuff tbh plumping, the jealousy of other mothers shows you clearly that she was aware of the disconnect between normal parents and her.

We all have the choice, to be kind or not. Those that are not deserve nothing but isolation and eternal contempt.

I won't forgive my mother for what she's done, she has not apologised or even considered that she's hurt me/Ds - or worse she's justified it.

i don't pity her, or anyone who manipulates or hurts children for their own sick ego.

I pity us, the children they hurt, and who are still hurting somehow.

The problem is Hissy, it can be turned back on you, as in op and me later on when they can have independant relations, they can say the evil mother stopped the relationship, cut them off from the family and by that point....its down to personality really, your child may actualy just like them better and in which case would feel resentment to the mother....

I like your statement Hissy. That we all have the choice to be kind or not. It's so simple and absolutely true.

I agree the way is not to smile and learn to handle it. I think if you're talking about a situation that only involves yourself, and you know what's really going on, that could work as a way to get through spending time with people like these. But when DC are involved you have to highlight the bad behaviour as it happens by stating when you disagree. For example, GM saying I love you more than anyone else does. I would speak up and say directly to my DC, your Mummy and Daddy love you more than anyone else. You're our children and we are here to take care of you and love you.

Hi BeyondRepair. I was/still am fearful of the future and IL's contacting my DD independently. I am going to teach my DC about emotional manipulation, and arm them with as much emotional intelligence as I can. I hope that as they grow into adults, they are able to identify bad behaviour more easily. I hope they are not easy prey as they'll be grounded and know they are loved and have a good sense of self, good boundaries. I hope I can do that for them. It's taken me years to work out some of these things for myself. Decades in fact.

Never undereatimate the loyalty of children to their parents... As long as the relationship isn't poisoned.

This is why the truth (age appropriate and evolving) is vital.

I'm hyper sensitive to emotional blackmail and manipulation, the minute I sense it, I call em on it and shutters come down.

Any continuation and whoever it is, is gone.

Your best bet is to make sure that there's no space for these people to get a foothold. Be inconvenient, pick them up on everything and call them out.

But only when contact is unavoidable. Take back control of what happens to you and to your family and stop allowing them space in your life to ruin it.

Hissy, I think we will have to agree to disagree (although I do think you're right on some points).

OP, it's great that you're sounding more confident about handling this.

I don't see we are disagreeing per se, but you perhaps are not allowing yourself to accept that there are ALL tools available to protect a child here; including going NC.

In any event, I would stop contact for a while and reassess. let DH go, alone and allow the child to be kept away from such negative influences.

the DH is the key here, get him onside and the child has a much better chance of being harmed LESS than otherwise she would be. Ultimately though, any contact with these women WILL harm the child and her parents relationship.

I don't regret going NC with my mother, the low level crap she pulled was so insidious, nonsensical and out and out weird... i'll never know what she was hoping to achieve with the stunts she pulled, but I'm not about to wait to find out.

The only chance DS and I have of a normal extended family is to hope that any partner of mine has a good one.

Gooogle your DD is 6 - you will have total control over who contacts her or not for a good few formative and important years to come. Try not to panic/worry.

You have WAY more power than you give yourself credit for.

She won't have a mobile for a while and you can make sure that contact is monitored to make sure she does not have these people undermining your decisions/parenting. you can block numbers and emails, and you will have every right to tackle people who disregard your boundaries and those of your DC.

You will have to have DH on board though. This is the crucial aspect of your situation. He needs to see what harm is being done here and what the consequences of it could be.

DH and I spoke again last night. We are in agreement that we will give them a wide berth (no contact) for the next few months. There is a family occasion in 6 weeks which they will throw toys out of pram if we don't attend. They will be absolutely banking on us attending. We are not attending. This will send a clear message again that we feel no obligation. We won't be guilted into coming. They have no control over us. I keep feeling angry towards them. Need to get a handle on that now. I want to tell them Exactly what I think of them and all their twisted tactics. I won't, I know this will empower them. But I do need to find a way not to be so angry.

the DH is the key here, get him onside and the child has a much better chance of being harmed LESS than otherwise she would be. Ultimately though, any contact with these women WILL harm the child and her parents relationship.

Op dont know about you, but my DH has been good in that he knows what they are like and he knows the damage they have done to him,

inspite of this - amazing awareness my DH default position is of depression and going quiet, NOT saying anything, NOT defending himself and being VERY PASSIVE in the face of parental forcefulness.

He sees NOT saying anything as good, which in a way it is, as his parents are like tanks however for his own self esteem and our DC I wish he would say something sometimes.

Also my DH has a forgetful memory. To do with wider family we will get involved, usually get burned, in some way, major or minor and he will forget for the next time, he also has no understanding of the impact of them on our DC.

He still feels a magnetic pull to his DM even though he knows what she is like, which is more awareness most men have on here, and he still wants to please her.

I can honestly say if I could turn back time, I don't think I could have got involved with these people and had a family with DH. I love family, I love being around people and its hurt me so so much I cannot have this with them. They make me feel grubby. And it pains me when they are around my DC and my DH is ultimately a wet useless lettuce because he lacks a clear consistent plan with them and sways all the time.

Thanks Hissy. I agree I need to remember we hold the power here.

I've remembered something I was thinking on this topic last night.....

OP, you're fought with MIL before and seem to be winning, for now. At least, she seems to have backed off. That's good. Now SIL has taken the baton, as it were, presumably with MIL's full support.

It sounds like they are the sort of people who will relish an obvious fight if they think they can win. You don't sound like that sort of person, which already puts you at a disadvantage.

Leaving aside my own feelings on NC, I think that the best way to deal with people like this is not to hand them an obvious fight - that encourages them, because they love a fight where they can be viewed as the poor innocents. IMO taking a softly-softly approach can be more effective, because you're not actually doing anything that they can point to and call you on.

Do definitely limit visits and contact wherever possible, but you run the risk of being painted as the crazy person by SIL, MIL and all the extended family (plus potentially your DH and DD) if you go in all guns blazing. That's my opinion. Whatever you do, try to be subtle.

Hissy, I feel that we are disagreeing a little. I don't have to justify my approach, you don't have to justify yours, but both viewpoints may be helpful to the OP. That's what I like about MN!

Sorry google! Missed your update

" They will be absolutely banking on us attending. We are not attending. This will send a clear message again that we feel no obligation. We won't be guilted into coming. They have no control over us

^ WELL DONE!!! This is a BRILLIANT step, it really really is. We have also done this, and it will totally re dress or help to re dress the power balance. However its a long road and one I still struggle with. But, this is utterly brilliant. But you have to 100% stick to this. Prepare for all the fall out, ingore emails, dont even read them, dont ansa phone, door, delete texts dont read them, totally shut them out over this occasion. Good luck!

Ooh, lots of cross-posts.

Good for you on making a stand op, but I agree that you need to keep your temper around them. Don't give them ANYTHING to use against you - that can quite easily imagine their own ammunition.

Hissy, I feel that we are disagreeing a little. I don't have to justify my approach, you don't have to justify yours, but both viewpoints may be helpful to the OP. That's what I like about MN! certainly helpful to me!

Beyond, I have been in the place you describe with my DH. I am going to suggest he doesn't actually clearly see it yet. For a while my DH was like this. It took for him to be told by a counsellor what was happening for him to really understand. He sometimes forgets and needs reminding. But he is no longer mute in front of them. Can your DH see a counsellor?

I will definitely keep my temper in front of them! I am just fantasising about raging at them! Need to reconcile anger at everything they have taken from me and my family and all the hurt they have caused so far.

I'm not saying your DH is mute. Sorry I have just re read my post. MY DH was mute in front of his family. Now he pulls them on inappropriate comments there and then. Massive progress for him.

Fantasise away, I have done my share of that!

It can take you over though. I used to have dreams about strangling my mother strangely satisfying

Good on your DH, that does sound like a massive step forward. I'm sure they blame you for it!

Now he pulls them on inappropriate comments there and then. Massive progress for him.

That is brilliant Google. Its a slow process.

Gooogle, I'm so pleased for all of you to read your update. And well done to your DH. Having to admit these things about your family of origin has to be hugely distressing.

Your DD is a lucky girl indeed - don't be too worried about the future. If you arm her with the tools to recognise emotional manipulation, she'll be just fine. It's a very very long time since anyone had any success at emotionally manipulating me, despite rather strident efforts!

I know how angry you are. I have a very toxic sister who has cut me off, citing all sorts of lies and distortions of the truth. Very upsetting.

What I have done to deal with the anger is a letter to her (never to be sent) which I write, refine, polish and add to as the mood takes me. Sometimes I leave it for weeks, sometimes something happens which I add.

It feels like a release. I suppose there is always the option of sending it but its main purpose is to give me an outlet for my feelings.

You could use this thread, if that helps!