To suspect SIL has said something awful to DD who is 6?

[Gooogle]

To give some background, I had a very long thread about my husband's family, in particular my mother in law, a few months ago. It was called Utterly Depressed about my MIL. Sorry I don't know how to post a link.

Briefly, huge back history of MIL (and to some extent, SIL), wanting to be Mum to my DD who is 6 yrs old.

I have limited all contact - no texts or calls. We have to visit them every couple of months if there is a family occasion. I keep it friendly and pretend. Try not to say much. When I do speak MIL ignores me in a lovely passive aggressive way. It's like a stupid act we all put on.

DH saw a counsellor. He now sees that his DM dislikes me. That's huge progress. I am much happier, as the balance has shifted and now MIL would not dare to overstep the mark with me. She may well still bitch about me (I am sure she does!). But I really don't care.

Now I'm worried about my SIL. She is in her 40's, desperate to meet someone and marry, have a DC. Career that didn't go well, still relies on her parents for financial support. As the years go by she gets more and more sad/bitter and naturally there is a little bit of resentment towards me as I have DH and DD.

We visited PIL at the weekend, SIL was there. SIL had also seen DD the previous week. SIL tells me while we were at PIL's house, that my DD had told her the previous week that she was lonely and often has no one to play with. Apparently DD said she felt sad all the time. In reality my DD has friends and cousins to play every other day and spends lots of lovely time with me too. DD talks to me when she has a problem, and she has never told me she is lonely.

On the way home from PIL this week end, DD had a huge, HUGE emotional outburst. She was crying and her world was ending. Everything seemed to be wrong, DD said she had a terrible and awful life, never had anyone to play with, had to help me with chores all the time (hardly! She has the chores of making her bed and tidying her toys once a week). Everything was awful, no one gives her any attention.

I have never heard DD speak like this before. Never seen her in such a state either.

While we were at PIL, my SIL had taken her upstairs to have a chat. She often does this and I dislike it because I worry about what she may be saying to her.

SIL is very emotionally immature and she would like to feel she is closer to my DD than I am.

I have concerns about what SIL said to my DD. DD's outburst on the way home may be completely unrelated to her secret chat with SIL but I am worried they are linked.

My thoughts are that SIL has somehow manipulated DD into thinking all the things that came spilling out when she was crying on the way home. Could that be it? Feel sick thinking about having to now manage my DD around another member of the family.

In my situation, my family have spread all kinds of lies about what they have and have not done. Joke is that i debunk it all and my story stacks up, DMs doesn't. her vile H (VH) is well known as an arse to all so I have no doubt that he is altogether less believable.

I'm lucky in so far as my DS was a couple of years older when the shit really hit the fan (think 999 call) and he himself said he wished they would just die.

I do see the other members of my extended family, aunts uncles and cousins, just not her or her VH.

I do wish however that others like my own DF for example would think about what it takes for a child to say 'Enough" and to have to call 999, or to say No Contact and mean it? But then again, he's always been part of the problem too; uninterested in anyone except himself, and totally unable to stop himself from pulling me to pieces. Why not talk to HER? why not say to her WTF were you thinking? and why on earth have you not moved heaven and earth to make things right? Short answer, because she thinks she is entitled to treat me as she does and she has done nothing wrong.

meanwhile back on planet earth....

i do feel isolated from the lot of them, but luckily am a single parent to a child that was old enough to understand that what they did to me/us was wrong. I make the decisions in my life and don't have to pander to the Fear, Obligation or Guilt of others within the shitty situation. In short, these people are NOT good enough to warrant space or time in my life, they are not good people to be around so I won't be allowing it. I am aware that I do adopt a very simplistic approach to the situation, but when something is unacceptable, there are no degrees of unacceptability. And certainly no obligation to stick around to give them an opportunity to do it again!

They have every chance to consider their actions and apologise, I have been very clear and concise on the subject, but they won't, so until such time as they do... I carry on as I am with DS and we live happy. Allowing ourselves to be the strong, happy people that my crappy family are so threatened by.

Their loss, I have more space in my life for wonderful people who love me and my DS as we are.

In my situation, my family have spread all kinds of lies about what they have and have not done. Joke is that i debunk it all and my story stacks up, DMs doesn't. her vile H (VH) is well known as an arse to all so I have no doubt that he is altogether less believable.

I'm lucky in so far as my DS was a couple of years older when the shit really hit the fan (think 999 call) and he himself said he wished they would just die.

I do see the other members of my extended family, aunts uncles and cousins, just not her or her VH.

I do wish however that others like my own DF for example would think about what it takes for a child to say 'Enough" and to have to call 999, or to say No Contact and mean it? But then again, he's always been part of the problem too; uninterested in anyone except himself, and totally unable to stop himself from pulling me to pieces. Why not talk to HER? why not say to her WTF were you thinking? and why on earth have you not moved heaven and earth to make things right? Short answer, because she thinks she is entitled to treat me as she does and she has done nothing wrong.

meanwhile back on planet earth....

i do feel isolated from the lot of them, but luckily am a single parent to a child that was old enough to understand that what they did to me/us was wrong. I make the decisions in my life and don't have to pander to the Fear, Obligation or Guilt of others within the shitty situation. In short, these people are NOT good enough to warrant space or time in my life, they are not good people to be around so I won't be allowing it. I am aware that I do adopt a very simplistic approach to the situation, but when something is unacceptable, there are no degrees of unacceptability. And certainly no obligation to stick around to give them an opportunity to do it again!

They have every chance to consider their actions and apologise, I have been very clear and concise on the subject, but they won't, so until such time as they do... I carry on as I am with DS and we live happy. Allowing ourselves to be the strong, happy people that my crappy family are so threatened by.

Their loss, I have more space in my life for wonderful people who love me and my DS as we are.

As for cutting them off, one has to be careful as GP can site past relationship as beneficial to the child and get access through the courts, I have seen posters saying this is what has happened.

X-post with many :)

Awesome update Gooogle super pleased for you. it's a great step. :)

Also my DH has a forgetful memory Its what happens to victims of dysfunctional/abusive relationships sadly. Our brain is programmed to keep accepting the same treatment. In our heads we have a script that runs every time we get hurt

"oh it's not important really" (meaning WE are not as important)
"So and So didn't really mean it that way (they bloody did)
"Silly me, I'm being over sensitive as usual" (because we are told we have no right to be upset/offended)

Then there is the societal stuff... But this is your MOTHER/FATHER/FAMILY... The taboo that exists in this area is perhaps the point that enables most abuse/dysfunction

On the offchance that we do find the presence of mind to directly challenge, 9 times out of 10 it will be flat our denied, and they will get angry if you persist.

The "you are ALWAYS so sensitive, high maintenance etc" are often trotted out too, undermining our right to be hurt by crappy actions of others.

They will do/say anything to perpetuate the dynamic of you being the one they kick.

I'm glad you are not attending this event Gooogle, but be very aware of the fear that your DH will go through in the lead up, reassure him and remind him why you have taken this decision. Support him in this, it'll be tough I think.

I have raged at my DM, alone in my car, in the bathroom, in the kitchen. I rage at the indignance of it all, and the needlessness of the hurt she has inflicted. i know however that expressing it to her directly would be pointless, as I have raised issues with her in the past, she completely denies them and then ignores me.

Then given the opportunity would repeat as normal.

I get that is is as a result of her upbringing, but I'M not doing the same to my DS as she did to me... I have the capacity to love my child, I have the capacity to love other peoples children if it comes to it... Maybe that is why she hates me, because I show her up? I'd rather be in my skin than hers.

Beyond GP have NO rights of access to GC. NONE. They can cite what they like, but first they have to put a strong enough case before the judge to even get it into the court procedure/system.

No GP can take a parent to court and demand access based on the kind of set up described here.

" one has to be careful as GP can site past relationship as beneficial to the child and get access through the courts"
that is a very far fetched scenario unless eg the child had been living with GP for years.

I'd book a trip away the weekend if the event you're not attending. That way they can't even try to get you to "just pop in for a few minutes."

Good call sneepy, I'd agree. Non-refundable, SUCH a shame.

They'll know you did it on purpose, but fuck 'em.

Hissy Thu 05-Mar-15 12:04:15

Another brilliant post, thank you.

Your spot on about the response, putting ones needs way down list as well as the TABOO of the parents.

that is a very far fetched scenario unless eg the child had been living with GP for years

Sunny I have seen two posters I can think of right now who have had this happen. The GP have to have had a previous relationship with the GC and be able to prove it was beneficial to them and detrimental to them to have it taken away.

Obv we dont know the precise back grounds of the ops etc but there are def two people this has happened too. I was told by whoever (!!) on one of those threads as long as GP see the DC even occasionally, it would prevent them for going to access...so this is what we try and do.

fruitini how old were your dc and did they like sil/mil? did you ever talk to your dc abut them not being nice or just minimise contact?

yes my half sister thought she could get away with calling me a 'cunt' in front of my DCs and then taking DD to make cakes with her where she explained to her that I was not a very nice person.
Funny they have hardly seen her since. Nobody fucks with me like that!

Thanks Beyond

I also found myself 'forgetting' the reason i was so upset. I had to remind myself what they did to me, over and over. Each time I did this, it was like 50 First Dates, I hurt as if it was the first time to begin with, it was like tearing the scab off a wound. :(

Over time it got easier, and now I just don't think about what kind of parent moves house and neglects to share any of the details bar the part of the country and when. She'll never get it, so why would I even bother raising my hopes that one day she'll realise what she actually did.

inspite of this - amazing awareness my DH default position is of depression and going quiet, NOT saying anything, NOT defending himself and being VERY PASSIVE in the face of parental forcefulness.

...
Also my DH has a forgetful memory. To do with wider family we will get involved, usually get burned, in some way, major or minor and he will forget for the next time,

Had this with my DH - and I think I was very resentful for a long while that he wasn't defending me and I was very angry for a long time. Now it bothers me less and I feel I have situation mainly under control.

I started defending myself and him and over time it helped him I think stand up a bit more for all of us. I also remind him of how they have been and the problems they have caused in past every so often. Though I'm lucky I guesses MIL tend to reach point of over playing her hand every so often - which upset him and means people finally see through all the crap she pouts.

When my DC were vey very young - I was also threaten with GP getting access as they were getting enough access - ie they were getting to come over when ever they wanted. I did some research and they have the right to apply for contact if they can prove they have a big input into the DC lives - and told them that - they don't have a weekly input into our DC lives. I think a few friends pointed out how hard some dad find getting access and those threats died down.

"oh it's not important really" (meaning WE are not as important)
"So and So didn't really mean it that way (they bloody did)
"Silly me, I'm being over sensitive as usual" (because we are told we have no right to be upset/offended)

^^ This is stuff that happens to me in my family - so I do wonder if I am set up for accepting this kind of crap - and had to learn not to.

OP good news about the party - very good start.

Good for you friuitini we have had to do similar too.

BTW I wonder all these GP when they see the GC do they take over I saw my pils recently and I have not seen them with the DC for years,

I was amazed at the intense micromanaging " come and sit here, eat this, want this or that, put that there, put this here, come and do that, put that on, take this off" it didnt stop, every second was controlled, and all taking care of them was totally taken over.

I didnt mind for the day as I needed a break but it was like I wasnt there, 100% took over.

I wonder if the other problem PILS do this?

Mine don't do the micromanaging. They wait to be greeted, and if DD doesn't give enough affection on entering their house they spend the next half an hour repeating, "DD hasn't said hello properly yet".

Then once they have had the gratification from that, they ask how is school/say they've missed DD etc.

Then DD tries her luck asking for sweets or similar. They either give them to her or refer to me. So I can say no. Very occasionally I say yes and give DD sweets myself, and they usually look upset they haven't been the sweet giver. Sometimes you have to play them at their own stupid game.

Then they bide their time, wait until I am sufficiently relaxed and my guard is down, and they wander off with DD to another part of the house for their chats. Throughout the visit I also get lots of nonsense from them such as DD is just like SIL, DD why don't you go and play in 'your bedroom'?, DD can come and live with us (only half joking. If I said OK they would have her!).

They say things to me like, Gooogle's not a career woman, she is a mum (I had a very successful career before DD), Gooogle is so lucky to have DH because he does EVERYTHING. He changes nappies, helps with everything (I do wonder how he does all this remotely from work), anything that diminishes my role.

If I say anything, they continue the conversation completely ignoring whatever I have said. They avoid looking at me when I speak so that I have no one to look at while speaking. It is so utterly rude that I sometimes have to pick my jaw up off the floor.

Interesting, I get the micro managing and taking over as well as the sil comments!

I have always said my MIL will dance with joy if I get terminal cancer.

The comments about you not being a career woman are farcial. I hope you respond to those.

" Goodness" with sweet smile, and kind voice" DArling how long have we been together? Your parents still forget I was X before the children darling! You normally seem to have such good memories and yet you keep forgetting I had a good career and I can bring all my knowledge and training to the benefit of the children" sweet smile.

DD CAN COME AND LIVE WITH US.

" Oh bless, " whisper" I wouldn't keep saying that as she has had nightmares about it, she thinks your being serious and it has upset her".

My DD started to cry when we left the wider family home, PILS looked like it was cruel of us to be going home and taking DD, ie...they interpreted her tears for her cousins and the general fun, as wanting to live with them forever....my DD never actually mentions them when doesnt see them" I said crisply " dont worry, she always does this when she has to leave somewhere, dont you darling, remember x house, we had to prise you out".

It didnt matter, they will still think " poor X, her heart was broken having to leave US her GP".

But...it made ME feel better to say it.

• Gooogle is so lucky to have DH because he does EVERYTHING

^ I had exactly this too! My dh won an award at work and his DM wrote to him saying " well done I know how hard you work AND you have to help with the children AND you have to help in the house, AND you have to cook, AND you have to help in the garden"

HELP help? help out in his own bloody home????

Pull them up on it. We are not in the 1950's any more and even then,plenty of men were active in the family home.

Fruitini I completely agree. My IL's used to be included in lots of special occasions and events but they took advantage of the situation and didn't care what damage they caused to me, or the relationship between mother and child, DD and I.

Now they have lost the privileges and inclusion we gave them because of the damage they want to cause us.

Now they have lost the privileges and inclusion we gave them because of the damage they want to cause us.

Same here.

We also used to include them but put a downer on everything, people relaxed when they left, made rude comments etc. Now we dont bother.

But they still feel that they have a right to be there and they are being un fairly exlcuded.

I am feeling so full of rage today. I just thought I would post as it may help writing all this down. Better out than in?!

I'm very angry at DH. Everything he says or does today I am linking back to his family behaviours and I am just getting so angry. He called me a stupid pet name earlier that I hated and I snapped at him. He hasn't been to counselling for a few weeks and I'm very angry he seems to have just stopped. He thinks a few sessions were enough clearly, but we agreed he would keep this up for a long while. Unless he is attending the counselling I fear he will slip back into his old thinking, that his family are not that harmful. Right now they feel like a nuclear bomb to me. I can't get far enough away from them.

I am going for a very long run.

Goooogle - first thing first - protect your daughter - stay away from this silly family and weird sister-in-law. Don't explain yourself to DH - just do it and let him complain or sulk. He needs to grow up and learn not to depend on this dysfunctional family so much.

Sounds like he needs to get back into therapy. Not surprised you're angry with him. What a bloody let down.

Thank you. Feel better after getting out of the house for a while. DD is doing great the last couple of days :)