to be a bit ragey about people's off list gifts

[DuchessofCuntbridge]

Many, many weddings to go to this year. Many gripes have I about these events, but I am trying to be good and less complainy about all the faff, money and time I am expected to dish out.

But this one... I want to know how ridiculous I am being.

All wedding invitations this year came with gift lists. Fine. I have logged onto the lists, selected an appropriately priced and looking gift for each and bought it. None of these gifts have been particulartly exciting, but Bs and Gs have selected them from such naice shops as John Lewis and so I have bought them as requested.

But this weekend I went to collect DH from a friend's where they had been watching the rugby. I was informed by that friend (very very smugly) that they had gone "off list" for their gifts of a couple of these weddings, having had AMAZING ideas. He wouldn't tell us what they are getting (even though we have already bought gifts so hardly likely to copy ffs) and just got smugger about how Bs and Gs were going to LOVE their gifts.

I didn't even know that you could go "off list"?!

I am a bit miffed really... (i) I didn't realise its such a competition, (ii) I didn't know that I could have gone and bought something better (IMO) than what was on the list as I thought you HAD to buy from the list and (iii) I feel like it takes away from everyone else's gifts for some people to just trample on the list and start buying other things which they want to wow the Bs and Gs.

I know I know, I am ridiculous. But I felt very cats bum face about the smugness!!!

Limited My heritage is the same as yours. English born to an Irish Catholic family, same generation too.

And I can assure you that you cultural expectations are not the same as my family's! It wasnt when my parents got married, or any of my generation. I think your issue here is that it may be your family's expectation rather than a cultural one, which is why so many people "failed".

Tbh, I am embarrassed on your behalf.

My friend bought me something lovely off-gift list, well she arranged it including the whip round for the cash. She had all sorts of bother getting it through security at the airport and worried about breaking it all the way.

We've been married 12 years and never used it.

DW and I've never bought a gift off the list at any wedding we've been to.

rereading that's a bit ambiguous. What I meant to say is we always ignore the list and do our own thing.

The "off list " table cloth my friends bought is 20 years on still in use(and actually on the table today)

the wooden " glasses" another friend gave us got "lost" within a year

Photo frame other friends gave us has picture of dh's late brother and have had a prominent place in all of our homes.

All the onlist wedding gifts were used over and over again most of them are still much loved and used things we could not have afforded at the time but have treasured over our married life.

In the past I have done both. on list and off list. If i go off list i ensure it is at least semi practical

Limited the guests that you're bitching about gave a gift, they sent it after the wedding. Which is absolutely fine.

I’m not bitching about them GoodbyeToAllOfThat, I'm talking about them.

But what they did is far from absolutely fine. They partook of my mother’s hospitality and didn’t give a present to her daughter.

However they realised that they’d done wrong and made amends.

Limited - do you only mix with people from the same background (which would seem a little sad to me)? Otherwise how would your guests know your traditions?

I mix with a wealth of nations and cultures, so there is no need to weep for me Pico2.

Tell me, do you adhere to people’s strongly-held cultural traditions, or just the ones you find financially convenient?

CactusAnnie Do you have any idea how unhinged you sound?

I mix with a wealth of nations...

No, you just mix with wealth. I would hide this thread if I were you as you are coming across as a crashing snob and a self-entitled ingrate.

Limited Seriously, I think this is just you. Your expectations bear no resemblance to any Irish wedding I have been to, and there have been a few, Catholic or otherwise.

I rather suspect that you are that bride.....

Bumping ready for April.

I don't think I'd know that some of my friends are of Irish Catholic origins as the people I know who are of Irish Catholic origins have assimilated so much that they don't follow any obviously different traditions to those of English descent.

What did you do to make this clear for your wedding? Did you add information to the invitation saying that your background means that you expect a big present?

I wonder if Limited is working on the (in certain parts of the) US idea of "Cost per Plate" = Cost of gift.

So if the meal costs £50 pp and there are 4 of you then you are expected to give a gift worth £200.

Rather gauche imo.

Some years ago, I went off list for DH's much younger cousin, as I was so annoyed at being sent (without its being asked for-I think lists sent with invitation are tacky , especially as you can easily email one in response to requests now ) a list deposited at a well known store of which there wasnt a branch within 100 miles of us (there is now) I bought some high quality white bath sheets . Never got a thank you letter either .

Ime going off list strikes as being feeling rather "special".
Perhaps there is jealousy involved?

Some of my single friends went off list spectacularly (jealousy played a big part)and I just loathed the idiotic antiques they sent.

I had a few crueset pots on my list and was absolutely delighted with them as gifts. I use them all every week for the bulk cooking I do. The antiques, I flogged, and bought things from our list!!

Friends tend to reveal themselves at weddings. Some are just awful, some come up trumps, and it's always a surprise who behaves terribly, and who behaves themselves.

I always buy from the list, and if things are too expensive, I go in with another guest and share the present.

Op I'm sure your present will be appreciated far more than the smug off listers' one. Relax in the knowledge your name will come up again and again with a blessing in your friends new married life, as they use the thing they asked for everyday!

Limited your parents chose to be lavish. They chose to spend £x per head rather than fund a registry office and buffet. I assume this is what you (and they) wanted, not your guests. Why should your guests match the contribution of their choice?

And if you mix with a variety of cultures, how did you let your guests know what is supposedly expected in your culture? I'm imagine an invitation with this written on it...

'In our culture we expect the guests to be as lavish with gifts as we have been with hospitality. This wedding has cost us £x per head, please remember that when choosing your gift'.

I would love to see that mumsnet thread

Everyone I know who specified a 'posh' dinner service on their wedding list had a mish mash of pieces .Many of them (I know lots of couples who have been married 30+ years) no longer like the design-tastes change- and rarely use it . I bought our very plain white and silver dinner service (12 complete settings plus veggie dishes etc) to celebrate our silver wedding . We never entertained formally in the earlier years of our marriage anyway . Result!
In response to DM's pleading (people kept asking her )I did a' Thank you but we do not need list' and are just happy you can come to celebrate with us. (we both had our own houses when we met) We did actually get quite a lot of money, with which we bought things like a really high quality king sized duvet . I made sure to tell each giver what we had spent the money on. . We also got loads of smaller gifts (pyrex jugs, tea towels and the like) from family friends and neighbours (not wedding guests) which were treasured equally .
The idea of a wedding list originates in the days when a young couple were setting up house from scratch with virtually nothing except what the bride might have had in her 'bottom drawer' . So many people live/buy and furnish houses together way before they marry now it seems a bit of an anachronism. This may 'out' me but went to a wedding some years ago , bride, late forties (my very well paid boss) and groom(even better paid), reception was in a marqee in the grounds of their lovely house, solicted contributions to their honeymoon via a tacky wishing well in the corner . To add insult to injury I and 2 colleagues were originally invited to the evening party only, but some guests obviously dropped out so we were last minute invited to the wedding. Curiousity overcame scruple.Why could they not ask for donations to a charity of their choice?

Gottobe She is English/Irish. So am I and to the same extent. Its not a culture thing but a grabby thing.

Limited, 'I am English born second generation Irish catholic'.

I'm Irish, living in Ireland, and according to the family tree my uncle has made, my family have been in Ireland for many, many years (think high kings). Highly irrelevant, of course, but if we are going to bring culture and history in to it..
I have never heard of a tradition of a transaction wedding, whereby the guests repay their hosts with gifts. Quite the opposite, in fact. Please don't give the impression that Irish weddings are all about gifts as payment for a good party, nothing could be further from the truth

Makes sense Bogey.

Oh limited, you're on a wind up aren't you? I'm second gen Irish catholic, as is DH and you're talking complete bollocks. I will grant that is a reason for you assuming bride and groom rather than bride/bride or groom/groom, but it has fuck all to do with gift etiquette! I notice you avoided answering my earlier post btw...but I suspect I know your answer

But you are saying your "tradition and culture" is "the bride's parents provide the party and the guests provide presents or money in celebration of the union and gratitude for the celebration". How exactly do you expect your honoured guests to know this, do you send instructions out with the invitation?

It seems a bit silly to be arguing this, especially as we are both already married but I'm interested in why presents or money, in gratitude, are so important to you? And surely, by your logic, the gifts or money would go to the bride's parents?

Don't you think weddings are about the ceremony of marriage/vows etc, not the gifts? And if so, why are you attaching such importance to them?

I once saw an Irish TV program [part of a series on managing your money] which recommended that you have the biggest wedding possible because once you went over circa 180 guests, you start to break even if you have asked for cash presents. The mind boggles... it was pre-recession and I think most Irish people would say that the country had gone a little mad.

A friend of my brothers had the bad taste to tell him that they'd made a genuine profit from their wedding as they'd had a huge number of guests but had the space for a marquee and had kept catering costs down .....

2nd gen or not, weddings in Ireland are an expensive business and the "going rate" for gifts is at least €50 per head, more for a close friend or considerably more for family.
That said, I don't think anyone bats an eye if a gift is of lessor value especially if people have traveled or are perceived to not have the means. Limited's unforgiving attitude is unusual in that respect. People do put a lot of pressure on themselves to be v generous though and culturally are anxious about not being seen to be "tight".

The wedding presents we treasure most are those from people who have since died.

Our breadbin doesn't go with our kitchen and the hinge is dodgy, but it's unthinkable to replace it because James bought it and he didn't come back from Afghanistan.

Buying from the list for a couple who are setting up home together (as we were) or starting a new life together (as anyone symbolically is) means putting their home together. A house furnished with gifts is a home for a loved family. It is different from a birthday or Christmas - although if you ask what someone wants then it's conventional to get what they suggest!

I agree with you.

I'm going to a wedding in a few weeks with my Dad. We are buying separate gifts. He is insisting on going off list and giving money. I'm mad with him as logistically it is difficult to do this and is causing a third party (bride's mother) hassle as they couple live in another country so there are currency issue. My Dad is making this ridiculous thing even harder as he doesn't want to give them cash or incur bank transfer fees.

They have gift vouchers on both their list one of which is with amazon and the other is a mainstream retailer in the country in which they live. I know amazon is controversial as a company but FFS if you can't buy a bloody amazon voucher on-line you really are a fucking luddite and if you can't see that expecting the brides mother to stump up the cost of converting your cheque into a usable gift is wrong then you are an idiot.

I've bought a toaster.

GGRRR.