To still demand perfect table manners? (teenagers)

[ShaynePunim]

Not sure who's BU - me or my kids.

They're 14 and 12. My mealtimes rules have always been:

1. Back straight
2. No elbows on the table.
3. Elbows tucked in.
4. Bring cutlery to mouth, not the other way around.
5. No reloading of fork while still chewing previous mouthful.

There are other rules I'm sure but those are the ones I constantly have to fight about!

This is the way I have been brought up but as far as I can remember my parents never had to fight for it, by the time I was 5 or so it had been drilled into me and now it would take me an actual EFFORT to eat all slouched down with my elbows on the table etc.

So I don't understand why it's such a bloody struggle to get my kids to eat like civilised human beings!

My argument is that manners are very important and I want them, when they are adults, to be able to feel comfortable and confident in any environment, and not behave like Neanderthals.

I also find it unpleasant to have to watch them eat slouched down.

My 14 y.o. is OK...whenever I say 'sit up straight' or 'elbows in', she just does it.

My 12 y.o. argues with me over it! His arguments are: 1. we are at home so they should be allowed to relax and feel comfortable and not be harassed. 2. Manners are important but I don't realise that they (my kids) already have much better manners than most kids they know so I should give them a break. 3. He thinks I am showing poor manners by criticizing them! (But I point out I am not merely criticizing for the sake of it, I am bringing them up!).

So anyway, AIBU?

I would LIKE to give them a break (it's not bloody fun for me!), only if someone could reassure me that I have sown the seeds of good manners already and if they ever get invited to tea by the Queen they'll be just fine.

But I'm scared of letting go and failing them by not ensuring they are well brought up.

I'm a bit like you OP, and I'd like to be a little less fussy too!

But... I am actually staggered by the lack of table manners in some of the children that come here as guests.

If nothing else, talking with mouths full; eating with mouths open; slurping drinks; breathing heavily through food and drink; picking up food with fingers (that isn't finger food), should be considered unacceptable.

That way everyone around the table can enjoy their meal .

Goodness me, your house sounds like fun!

chill out - by the sounds of it your kids have well and truly got the message and know exactly how to behave at a table. If you carry this on into teenage years I think you are just going to cause massive aggravation and nobody will enjoy any meal together. Lighten up. Elbows off tables was the rule years ago.............................

^^ Shockers - some children do have incredibly poor manners when eating out, and I am shocked by some of my teen's friends.

Those of you who don't use napkins - how do you wipe your hands, or don't you? . I find it really difficult to eat a meal without a napkin (or serviette ), I don't think I am a messy eater but if none is provided you do end up wiping your hands on your lap. . I've got into the habit of stuffing paper hankerchiefs up my sleeves if I am going to someone's house where a napkin isn't provided.

Reloading fork while chewing? Why does that even matter?

It's just to pace yourself rather than bolting your food, really.

apoc but how would you know someone was doing this unless you were constanky watching them?

Well I wouldn't be watching anyone other than my kids particularly, but I do expect them to eat at a sociable pace - they are fed, I don't want them falling on their food like ravening wolves.

I have hosted literally hundreds of kids over the years.
Not once have I ever noticed other kids table manners or felt the need to be offended by them. My concern was only to check everyone was having a good time.
To this day ours is the house they all come to.
As long as your offspring know how to behave in public, job done as far as I'm concerned.

Yes you are being extremely unreasonable. If you want your children to want to come home and eat with you then I would relax. Poor kids why can't they relax at home?

It's not big deal; I've been to eat with quite a few 'posh' people and they don't eat in the way you describe at all.

Well done on all those manners. My kids are terrible at this by British standards , I need to work on it but they are American and I consider them holding a knife and fork the British way a triumph. However, I would relax a little as you don't want tension at the table, it's not good psychologically if it escalates. (StepDad used to smack my hand if I reached across the table for something, it did hurt and I usually burst into tears. Screw him!)

Growing up myself (also with my sons) there were 'family manners' and 'company manners'. What you're describing was more what we thought of as 'company manners', really minding your Ps and Qs. 'Family' manners were more relaxed but still mannerly. No reaching or grabbing for things, using utensils not fingers, no talking with your mouth full, no chewing with your mouth open or making 'eating noises'. A little slouching was fine as long as your face wasn't in your plate. No one would mind if your elbows were on the table as long as you weren't crowding or shoveling food.

I think you need to relax just a bit. Your children know their manners and I'd say they know when to use them, too.

Exactly Spybot it's not good psychologically if it escalates

If you've been instilling good manners in them thus far, they'll be fine. I do all the no elbows, mouth shut, fork right way round, no lip smacking, napkins but ultimately spending time together is more important.

My DH is a conveyer belt eater. He didn't go out much as a child .

Sometimes I say 'Darling, are you in a hurry to get somewhere?' in my best June Whitfield voice. I get a Look, but he does slow down.

He has undermined my lessons on table manners, so I have concentrated on conversation, please and thank you etc. My friend taught hers to say 'Thank you for a lovely meal - may I leave the table' She made it into a game, and when they have come over here and said it, it sounds so natural, it melts your heart - even if I know they have been drilled.

I will say that eating\chewing slowly is a very good way to keep slim\ lose weight

Apart from that I'd hate to automatons for children. I hope you set them a good example.

I am working on pouring the water for everybody not just yourself - grumpy 15 reckoned that no-one would ever voluntarily be the first to ask for water as they would then be saddled/burdened/stuck/unjustly left to pour at least three and sometimes four glasses of water..... I despair sometimes.

Elbows on tables are fine if space permits IMO.

Loading your fork while chewing is okay.

I think I've managed to get DS out of the habit of complaining if it's the wrong type of pasta or if there is sweet potato in the mash. His older DS who recently left home is now a shining example of being an appreciative diner.

Please and thank you, No phones on the table, Attempt to make conversation; those are the chocohousehold rules FWIW.

Ooh yes and mouth shut!

Honestly I love food and cooking and have instilled good manners in dd, I don't care at home though so long as she is not a total pig, just last week she ate her second portion of risotto straight from the pan, same child sat through a four hour tasting menu at a michelin starred restaurant last year, and can use chopsticks.
Meals in our home are relaxed and all about enjoyment, we will both eat chips with our fingers, we also own escargot dishes, tiffin plates and more than one cheeseboard, which are used corretly when we feel like it.

Your DS's arguments are very sound.

Table manners are also extremely culturally specific, and it's now much more likely that your children will need to adapt their manners to their environment, anything too rigid will hamper this, as you said yourself you cannot change your behaviour.

Knowing how to eat to a particular persons manners is important, you don't need to know practice one set in your own home all the time.

I still don't know which of the OP's expectations are so very demanding. As I said, they just look normal to me.........

YABU. My ds 13 has excellent table manners when eating out or at other peoples houses and that imo is all that matters. You sound ridiculously uptight and mealtimes sound like a chore.

OP it sounds as though you are putting yourself under a lot of pressure. Do you feel you need to "prove" yourself as a single mum?

Try to relax a bit, honestly your kids will be fine if you loosen the reins a little bit. Home should be a place where everyone can unwind and not worry about all of the social niceties which we try to observe in the outside world.

Could you try to let go of the rules a bit and just focus on chatting to your kids? I bet you will enjoy that more than drilling them about table manners. It would be a shame if they were to look back on their childhood and think about their mum being so worried about something which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't that important.

Exactly Darkheart

Do they have to finish all their food? If so you are being even more unreasonable. They'll end up eating rubbish on the street with their fingers !!