Work being difficult about covering child illness

[Dontnic]

Help. Tell me I am not unreasonable. I am part time, earn a lot less than my DH and have a far junior job. We have 2 children at nursery at the moment and between them I have needed to take off 12 days since July when I went back to work (I work 3 days a week) to cover illness.

They both had chicken pox, which lasted over 5 of my working days. Also, they keep getting S&D that does the rounds in the nursery. This means if they get it on my 1st day of the week, they can't go back in at all that week due to the 48 hour rule.

DH has had some days off to cover illness, but it just doesn't make sense for him to take equal time off when he has targets to hit, meetings to attend for clients/prospects etc. If his job is affected we are financially buggered. So he does take time off but I do the lions share.

Work have now had enough and said that I can no longer take my holiday at last minute notice to cover child sickness and I have to take unpaid time off for dependants.

However, the BIG sticking point is that they deem a 'reasonable' amount of time for this as up to 24 hours. So I can leave at 2pm but need to be back in the office for 9 the next day. That is the exact example they gave.

I've called my union and they said that this was correct! Apparently the law says 'reasonable' time off but various other places deem reasonable to be up to 24 hours as it is only to arrange alternative care - not to give that care yourself.

I have no family in the area and friends/neighbours are not going to want a sick child... that is if they are free as most of them work too.

What on earth do working parents do during sickness? Apparently even child minders don't take sick children so it isn't as though I can change to a child minder.

You need to take responsibility as a couple for your dc. It's not up to your employer and colleagues to take up the slack from all of your absences....

Sad that you actually have the same employer but your Dp believes he cannot take this responsibility with you.

In your case Id go full time and employ a nanny.

Dh earns more than me. Works further away and wouldn't get paid if he had to leave work and collect a sick child just so I could go to work that day, he lose too much and that has a knock on effect for paying bills, for food, mortgage etc. Something else for me to stress about. So I would take the time off. For us it's not about who does the more than their share of looking after kids when they ill it's who would lose more money and it's Dh. He job IS more important than mine not because he loves it, far from it, it's more because it brings in more cash to support us than mine does. So, to us, makes more sense that I take the time off to look after sick children.

I sympathise, op. Dc1 picked up everything in Nursery but not so much afterwards. It's like she developed an immunity to all the shit round.

Why can't your DH's take his annual leave if you get a sick child again?

At full time he must have a decent lot of annual leave (lots more than you!) So can he just use that?

I appreciate that it might sometimes be at the last minute but he's clearly not done much (any?) child care adjustment at work at all so his employers good grace hasn't been tested as much.

I really don't think you should have to give up work when you don't want to.

As an aside, my DS is 2 and has never had D&V from nursery. I'm probably tempting face and perhaps he has a cast iron constitution (but he has been ill with temperatures/viruses/colds/ear infections etc). I'd be wondering about nursery as it really seems yours have suffered a lot!

I employ both men and women, both in full-time and part-time positions.

I certainly do not expect that the men have a 'little woman' to do their childcare!

OP you are taking the mickey at work.

I employ both men and women, both in full-time and part-time positions.
I certainly do not expect that the men have a 'little woman' to do their childcare

Some employers do though (men/women women/men - does not matter which way round)-
try getting a general/private/naval seaman/airman to fly home from a posting to cover their child's chicken pox absence
try calling out a paramedic in the middle of a shout to pick up a child who vomited at school
try getting a trawlerman's mate/oil rig worker/ supply vessel shipman/pipeline worker etc etc to helicopter home from a 2 month tour.

Whose job takes the hit? - the one who is away earning the mortgage money, or the one who is at home and available - usually having had to take a "little" job due to circumstances of their partner's job....

some employers know this, take account of this and work with the torn both ways employee to try and keep it amicable both sides, some don't and we pack up and move on... plenty of "little" jobs out there.

Becles In our local authority, HR issued an instruction saying that because of a change in legislation, we could not comment on attendance in a reference. They even issued a sentence we were instructed to write if asked about attendance. We have to say that 'in line with changes in legislation, it is local authority policy to not offer any information on attendance until after an appointment has been made. At that point should you wish to contact us we will offer further information.' (am remembering the words so could be out a bit) Seems a mouthful to me but that was the instruction from council HR. Similar in next local authority - my friend works in HR there.

At no point in any of this discussion have you made any acknowledgement of your absenteeism on your colleagues. Every time you take another unplanned day off they are having to pick up your slack. If you're wondering why you aren't popular at work, then have a look at your behaviour.

I certainly don't agree that employers expect women to have time off.

Infact, if DP and I had a sick child, it would 100% be him that took time off to look after it. We earn around the same, at the moment, but his job isn't so urgent. If his employer dared suggest that I take time off because I'm female...well, that's ludicrous, and DP would tell them such.

I don't think you should give up work, because it sounds like you'll resent it. I do think you need another plan. Unfortunately, if that's not going to be family (and I can understand your reasons there), it's going to need to be paid help, in the form of an emergency childminder, or just a regular full-time childminder in the hope that less exposure leads to less illness, or a nanny. You could try a reciprocal arrangement with someone who works evenings or workends, or even just another part-time mum, but they might be annoyed by constant illness if it continues as it is - not your fault, of course, but worth keeping in mind!

Unless your husband or partner is self-employed and would lose a day's pay then you should be letting your DH pick up the slack. It seems like your DH is happy to reinforce the idea that his job and career is the more important and that you are just the 'little woman' allowing your career to suffer by the excessive amount of dependent's leave you've taken off recently. On that basis I would be worried about giving up financial independence.

You say that you had to take 5 days off because one of your kids had chickenpox. What was to stop your husband from taking 2 or 3 days annual leave towards the end of the week to ease your burden. I think you need to change the perceptions of your DH mostly. My DH is a solicitor and earns more than me but still does his share of taking time off when the kids are sick

People have mentioned Sitters.co.uk a couple of times.

We have used them 5 times or so for evening babysitting. And now we have a regular lady who DS knows.

So if he is sick, we would pay her to come to look after him because she's not an unfamiliar face (plus she makes her living doing that kind of work for Sitters). I understand when they are sick that being left with someone unfamiliar isn't what you want.

Hi Op,

No advice or opinions here that haven't been said already, but I've been in your position when my children were young; that dread when they run a temperature, having the 'whose job is the most important' argument. It is without doubt unbelievably difficult if you're not lucky enough to have family or friends on hand for back up.

If you can - try and stick with your job. The illnesses do often become less as the children get older and become more resilient. It's a lot harder to get back in to the job market than it is to cling on to the job market whilst you navigate these particularly tricky years.

I don't know any childminders who will take a sick child.

Or any other P/T working parents. I certainly wouldn't take someone else's sick child at home & potentially infect mine, with the knock-on effect on MY attendance at work.

If OP continues working, a nanny is her only reliable option.

And unfortunately there are archaic, misogynistic, employers out there. My DP's employer doesn't even employ women, apart from secretaries, of course. None of the wives work, apart from me. So taking time off in his company for looking after sick children is unheard of. Apart from DP.

I dread the nursery phone calls. But we both share the time off. They are his children too.

Give up work if you want to - it's your choice. Sadly, I think it is women with attitudes like yours that hold other women back in the workplace.

I'm in a much more senior position than my DH, and I earn considerably more than him. We share emergency childcare, because both of us have obligations to our employers. I expect my staff - male or female - to share their emergencies with their partners, if they have them.

What many men don't like to acknowledge is that it's often easier for more senior staff to adjust their schedules because they tend to have more control over them.

What many men don't like to acknowledge is that it's often easier for more senior staff to adjust their schedules because they tend to have more control over them.

Yes in my experience this is true, the more senior you are the easier it is to bend/adjust work accordingly.

So my DH is able to delegate meetings, move stuff around, has the capacity to work from home (and equipment/laptop/blackberry) and also the seniority so that his employer TRUSTS that the work will get done. Even if it is done on a sat or Sunday because he had to look after a sick baby on Thursday/Friday.

If you are more junior you often have to be there to answer queries/calls etc and there’s no one to delegate to. Plus working from home can be more difficult.

I don't think it is unreasonable - they are allowing you 24 hours notice to cover childcare. I think that's pretty fair...

Jackie's last message ring v much true to me.

However, OP, your employers are not being at all unreasonable. I think they've in fact tried very hard to accommodate you.

Employers who employ (lets say 'a man') in a senior position, are not expecting them to take time off regularly to look after sick children. They do expect them to have (lets say 'a woman') to do this, even if that woman works.

Um, in my experience the employer expects the employee to have CHILDCARE lined up...they don't really care, in fact, who is doing it, cause it's not actually their problem but if anything I think they would assume it was paid help.

I think you are reading too much into this in that regard. It's not that I am not sympathetic to you but reading your comments about 'strangers' coming into your house, it MUST be you looking after them etc makes me think you are having second thoughts about working atm. Becuase I think someone really determined would be asking different questions about how to make it work.

Can you take a few years off?

I thought the op was taking annual leave?
In which case she isn't taking the piss with too much time off because its within her annual leave entitlement.
Its no one else's business whether she uses authorised annual leave for childcare or a holiday.

I work pt.No way would I look after someone else's sick child and catch the illness myself or give it to my children!

I suspect some people do not realise that nannies and au pairs are the domain of higher earners.
There is no way many working class families could employ a nanny purely because of the days dc's are ill.

I don't think the op has a poor attitude.I think she lives in a different reality to some.

It isn't your work being difficult. It's your husband. It isn't reasonable for your employer to do more to help you juggle career and family than he does. If the two of you have chosen to prioritise his career at the expense of yours, then that is your choice. You need to be convinced it is the free choice of both of you though. I took 5 years off work when my children were very small, but when I went back, I went back with the intention of making up for lost time. My DH therefore made changes to his working life that made it easier for us to accommodate two full time jobs. I am always a bit sceptical when I see one parent making the compromises, and the other carrying on regardless.

She is taking the piss because she rings up that morning and says "i'm not coming in, I'll take it as annual leave." That isn't how it works, she is legally obliged to give notice and her employer can refuse any request. If an employer wanted to they could say to all employees "you get 28 days annual leave each year, this year it must all be taken during February."

And your DH needs to step up to the plate too, end of. Ridiculous he is not more a part of this.

lulu that's just them, its not the law. Local authorities operate in a completely different way to most employers (most of my clients are local authorities). Their practices are often not a reflection of either the law or the "real world".

No MaCosta.
The employer is perfectly entitled at any time to say, 'no I can't give you annual leave at this notice -you need to take unpaid etofd'.
They haven't up till this point,therefore I would say that either they were ok about the requests to a certain point (which has now been reached) or they should have spoken up earlier.

I would check again with your husband.

Ime the more senior the more flexibility, around certain fixed points, working from home, going in at different times, on weekends and all the rest.

This will pass as they will get ill less often as they get older but it is a pita and the issues never go away really. I've had to take a few days leave at short notice over the last year (about 10 in total this year) and DS is 10 years old . Part of that leave was when he was seriously ill and in hospital with viral meningitis . "Luckily" most of that was over Christmas when my work place is closed for 2 weeks but I still had to take 6 working days off in in addition to that period as DS was not ready for school until over 3 weeks had passed.

The key thing is to convey to your work that you take your job seriously anf that you are taking responsibility for the work that will need to be done while you are at home (even if it is a c**p job with little pay)

If DS is ill dh and I discuss who can take time off most easily. DH can work from home more easily but he also has more things that he can't miss at work. If I need to be home for more than one day for DS being ill. I will do a couple of things.

1 Ask Dh to have DS for a few hours in the morning of the first day and I go in to the office, brief people, get stuff I can work form home on and generally give my contact details to everyone and let them know I will be working from home. Ask colleagues to do any urgent stuff for me that I won't be able to do from home. I make sure I pro-actively return the favour by helping them with their work at other times.

2 I would email my boss with the "important" things that would need to be done when I was off along with my solutions for this. i.e , "I can do it from home" or "I have asked so and so in the office and they can do it for me". "I can postpone this and have discussed with the client etc".

3 I would also offer to work on my non-work days to make up at least some of the hours the following week or the week after that. I have always paid for at least one extra day of childcare a week even when I didn't need it every week. That way I could use it without any hassle occasionally to make up lost days of work. If necessary I would book another day as well but this was not always possible if the nursery didn't have any spaces that day.

4 I would ask Dh to pick up ds on a couple of days after I was back at work and would work late to make up some of the the hours if this made sense (not possible in some jobs I know) and would let my boss know I was doing so.

In my experience my bosses have all wanted to feel that I was not just "taking off" and leaving them to cope until I got back. If I made this sort of effort it created good will. It isn't always easy though and with some jobs/employers it just doesn't work.