Work being difficult about covering child illness

[Dontnic]

Help. Tell me I am not unreasonable. I am part time, earn a lot less than my DH and have a far junior job. We have 2 children at nursery at the moment and between them I have needed to take off 12 days since July when I went back to work (I work 3 days a week) to cover illness.

They both had chicken pox, which lasted over 5 of my working days. Also, they keep getting S&D that does the rounds in the nursery. This means if they get it on my 1st day of the week, they can't go back in at all that week due to the 48 hour rule.

DH has had some days off to cover illness, but it just doesn't make sense for him to take equal time off when he has targets to hit, meetings to attend for clients/prospects etc. If his job is affected we are financially buggered. So he does take time off but I do the lions share.

Work have now had enough and said that I can no longer take my holiday at last minute notice to cover child sickness and I have to take unpaid time off for dependants.

However, the BIG sticking point is that they deem a 'reasonable' amount of time for this as up to 24 hours. So I can leave at 2pm but need to be back in the office for 9 the next day. That is the exact example they gave.

I've called my union and they said that this was correct! Apparently the law says 'reasonable' time off but various other places deem reasonable to be up to 24 hours as it is only to arrange alternative care - not to give that care yourself.

I have no family in the area and friends/neighbours are not going to want a sick child... that is if they are free as most of them work too.

What on earth do working parents do during sickness? Apparently even child minders don't take sick children so it isn't as though I can change to a child minder.

OP, would you consider changing your childcare before handing in your notice?

Completely your choice of course. But they won't get chickenpox again, and once you are through this winter (first nursery winter for your younger one? Always the worst) they may not get ill again for months and months. Seems a shame to throw your career aay just in case of further problems.

Would your employer allow you to take a career break? Many of the big firms do.

It is tough OP but sometimes one door closes and another one opens. I don't think you have been taking the pee. I do think it is underestimated how hard it is to have two working parents. There is no point jeopardising two jobs. Male or female. Could you freelance or set up on your own?

Change your child are.
Employ a nanny
Or take in an au pair who could help put and step in when you need . This could enable you to go up to four days per week or full time?

Dontic I hear you. It is very stressful. I have my long list of mid week people and DH had to take a day off yesterday because school was closed due to snow. While I am part time I had two meetings with different partners yesterday and there was no way I could perform as well if I dialed in from home. My son is going into the early intervention program here in New Jersey and I would have to drop to a 50% schedule to be around more. At that point it doesn't pay to work so I will be handing in my notice next month. I am sad about stepping out of the workforce but I have to put my DS's needs first. DH earns vastly more than me (about 10x) so it makes zero sense for him to drop hours. I am a qualified accountant but what people don't understand is that while accountants get paid somewhat well our hours are horrendous.

ThatBloodyWoman My contact list is huge in part because people are flaky and its a list that has been built up over the past two years. I share certain contacts but others, like my $10/hr Saturday night babysitter, are hoarded.

I used to work for a major supermarket and the problem you describe is fairly common. It creates a lot of tension between people actually. Childless people start to feel hard done by because of this.

I am childless and it would frustrate me that even when I was genuinely sick, I was still expected to come in and do my job. In my two years there, I never had a sick day.

Actually someone makes a good point above me, I totally sympathise with you over your situation. My career has taken a knock going part time as well, but I'm also SE while working 30hrs a week now the DC are older. Can you look to ask for a career break ? Sabbatical even ?

You don't have right to time off to care for sick children only to make arrangements for sick children to be cared for by someone else. So 1 day max.
Sorry YABU

dontic it sucks doesn't it. I'm a LP so I share time off with um, me. My employer will allow me to take unpaid days off when the kids are sick because grandma is only available a couple of days a week. I think the worst is behind us now but I used to have a shitty boss that wasn't at all supportive.

It's definitely worth asking about a career break - the worst they can say is no, and you've already decided you will have to leave, so you won't be any worse off. But if they don't go for it, then when you resign, be clear that it's because of childcare.

At our place a member of staff was called in just before Christmas because in an 11 month period, working 3 days a week she had had 17 days off for teenager who was sick and off school - all a day here and there. In terms of her working week, it equated to almost 6 weeks of absence. She has been put on an attendance monitoring plan. She doesn't care. She is applying for jobs somewhere else and because European law has stopped employers commenting on attendance in references she says no one will know.

But from the school's point of view, she is employed to cover for absent teachers and has been unavailable to do that so they are not happy because as well as paying the teacher who is off and employing her to provide cover, they are buying in supply to cover her. I can see their point.

I just hope DS has a robust immune system when I go back to work after ML.

Want2bSupermum People are flaky for not wanting to take care of your sick kids? Really?

OP, I know you are stressed and upset now but don't make a hasty decision about giving up work, it has long term ramifications.

Did you discuss with your DH about him doing a greater share in future?

You have had lots of good suggestions on this thread, do consider them before jacking in your job.

It totally sucks but legally they are within their rights to give you unpaid leave for this time. I'm in the same boat.

I haven't used up all my holiday cover at all. For this holiday year I still have quite a lot left - weeks in fact. But they won't let me take it for childcare. I have to take unpaid and up to 24 hours.

My dh has said that he just can't take more time off to look after our children when they are sick as it would affect his job a lot and we need his money. Wrong as this is, there is a view in employment that the person who earns a lot and is in a senior position is expected to have a partner who does the childcare issues. Ie me!

He would be putting his job in jeopardy because if he were to have taken 6 days to cover child sickness he would be in major trouble.

I realise this will set off a whole other debate but .... it is true.

Employers who employ (lets say 'a man') in a senior position, are not expecting them to take time off regularly to look after sick children. They do expect them to have (lets say 'a woman') to do this, even if that woman works.

It is just shitty that we clearly have quite sickly children. It isn't just the baby who is regularly ill, it is my 3 year old too. I think there is a massive point about the nursery environment though. I know from other parents that they are dropping their children off at nursery after they have vomited or had the runs during the night/morning but they have to go to work so are 'taking the risk'. All working parents are in the same boat.

I haven't used up all my holiday cover at all. For this holiday year I still have quite a lot left - weeks in fact. But they won't let me take it for childcare. I have to take unpaid and up to 24 hours.

My dh has said that he just can't take more time off to look after our children when they are sick as it would affect his job a lot and we need his money. Wrong as this is, there is a view in employment that the person who earns a lot and is in a senior position is expected to have a partner who does the childcare issues. Ie me!

He would be putting his job in jeopardy because if he were to have taken 6 days to cover child sickness he would be in major trouble.

I realise this will set off a whole other debate but .... it is true.

Employers who employ (lets say 'a man') in a senior position, are not expecting them to take time off regularly to look after sick children. They do expect them to have (lets say 'a woman') to do this, even if that woman works.

It is just shitty that we clearly have quite sickly children. It isn't just the baby who is regularly ill, it is my 3 year old too. I think there is a massive point about the nursery environment though. I know from other parents that they are dropping their children off at nursery after they have vomited or had the runs during the night/morning but they have to go to work so are 'taking the risk'. All working parents are in the same boat.

I have been the employer, only with an employee working 2 days a week - in months she didn't work a full month and seemed shocked that I could expect her husband to take up some of the slack.

THIS is why some employers do not want to hire working mothers.

1. you are being paid to do a job. Presumably you have been hired on the assumption that your work is important to the company; who will rightly assume you will be there and also that your illnesses and annual leave will be infrequent enough to be absorbed by the wider team without losing their goodwill or impacting on their performance.

2. telling me that your husband's work is too important to take up the slack gives the rage to your employer. You are basically saying, I know this is taking the piss but we've decided for you that your bottom line and your team can suffer rather than his company. This lack of appreciation of the impact of her behaviour on the workload and team was the kicker that pushed me into starting conduct proceedings.

3)when your childcare issues mean that your team plans all work assuming you will not be in or will leave halfway through the day you are being unprofessional and need to either resign or accept they will take steps to get rid of a liability. If they 'can manage' without you there so frequently, why on earth are they paying oncosts for an empty chair, if they aren't managing there are thousands more who will show up to do the hours they are contracted to do.

4. To the person who said that absences can't be mentioned in a reference: a) an employer has a right to decline to give a reference b) state as I have done in the past that, no I would not re-employ this person due to negative impact of significant xx days off in xx months (when working xx days a week) on the team and workload c) if the absence is not linked to a disability, there is no reason why it cannot be mentioned d) adjustments for someone with a chronic condition is different than the strain on those left to pick up the slack because your family doesn't see your work as important.

To any newbie boss who hasn't been through this before, tackle it early and from the second absence follow your HR policies (including staff sickness which is often used to cover) to the letter. Seek HR advice and ensure you document all conversations about this and any responses to the idea of sharing sickness cover with a partner if there is one. Trust me the resentment in the rest of the team and the impact on your work load and stress levels several months down the line will thank you for it.

Dotnic, I am a woman in a senior position with two small children. My husband's role pays less than mine but is no less important to him or his company than mine is.

Attitudes to women at work will persist whilst some women, and I'm afraid this includes you, take the view that an employment contract is a one way street. Your employers have been very reasonable to date. Pp have suggested very good options for you to consider to enable you to continue working. But you seem reluctant to consider them.

We have no family nearby. We have built up a network of support for the inevitable off days. A mix of baby sitters, childminders, nannies and friends. It costs but that isn't my employer's problem. I know it's hard but...

My dh has said that he just can't take more time off to look after our children when they are sick as it would affect his job a lot and we need his money. Wrong as this is, there is a view in employment that the person who earns a lot and is in a senior position is expected to have a partner who does the childcare issues. Ie me!

Employers who employ (lets say 'a man') in a senior position, are not expecting them to take time off regularly to look after sick children. They do expect them to have (lets say 'a woman') to do this, even if that woman works.

This is your view, OP, not an employers. Employers hire people to do jobs and employees on lower wages are expected to turn up just as much as senior level staff are expected to. The expectation from most employers isn't that the poorer paid, or the woman, takes unplanned time off; the expectation is that there is a backup arrangement to cover children's illnesses.

I find your interpretation quite offensive, and does a huge disservice to the many parents who combine work and childcare responsibilities. Your employer has shown significant patience already, and you still don't have any cover in place. You have to find the solution, not your employer.

Sorry, Becles is right. Seen to much of this before - both parents and both their employers should take time off if necessary, and the focus of time off should be arranging care. YABU.

I don't understand why you think your employer should take a hit. They've decided that you taking holiday at short notice doesn't suit the business and they're within their rights. They've acted fairly and reasonably. You've taken a huge amount of time of, I'm guessing at short notice. Can you not see how unreliable as an employee this makes you? If you can't fulfill your contract then you should resign.

I think you're losing my sympathy OP.

I am a senior, high earning, female and I work in law (employment lawyer) where expectations are very high. I now work for myself but previously worked in large law firms. Unfortunately attitudes like this are part of the reason why women face negative attitudes in the work place.

If you want to work then work and do it properly. Accept that you have children and that they will need care periodically. Sign up to a service NOW when they're not ill so that when they are you have cover a telephone call away. If you're not prepared to do this then you can't expect to keep your job. The attitude towards you from your employers will be affected (quite rightly so) and you will ultimately be dismissed.

Those saying absences cannot be mentioned in a reference are completely incorrect. A reference can actually say anything at all, including that you're an unreliable PITA if that's true. In fact technically it can even say things that are not true (although the employer then potentially runs a risk of being sued).

OP, while I think your attitude about your husband's job being more important stinks, I would like to give you some constructive advice. Look around the playground for another PT parent who works the opposite days to you. That way you can look after each other's sick children. That's what must people do - that, or pay for emergency childcare.

As an aside, I have moved into a recruiting role and if I had two candidates who were equally qualified and experienced, due to the numerous "entitled mums" threads on MN, I'd always pick the one who looked least likely to have small children.

Oh, and I have been asked about sickness / other /dependent absence in references. And when applying for jobs, I've been asked how many absences I had in the previous two years.