Work being difficult about covering child illness

[Dontnic]

Help. Tell me I am not unreasonable. I am part time, earn a lot less than my DH and have a far junior job. We have 2 children at nursery at the moment and between them I have needed to take off 12 days since July when I went back to work (I work 3 days a week) to cover illness.

They both had chicken pox, which lasted over 5 of my working days. Also, they keep getting S&D that does the rounds in the nursery. This means if they get it on my 1st day of the week, they can't go back in at all that week due to the 48 hour rule.

DH has had some days off to cover illness, but it just doesn't make sense for him to take equal time off when he has targets to hit, meetings to attend for clients/prospects etc. If his job is affected we are financially buggered. So he does take time off but I do the lions share.

Work have now had enough and said that I can no longer take my holiday at last minute notice to cover child sickness and I have to take unpaid time off for dependants.

However, the BIG sticking point is that they deem a 'reasonable' amount of time for this as up to 24 hours. So I can leave at 2pm but need to be back in the office for 9 the next day. That is the exact example they gave.

I've called my union and they said that this was correct! Apparently the law says 'reasonable' time off but various other places deem reasonable to be up to 24 hours as it is only to arrange alternative care - not to give that care yourself.

I have no family in the area and friends/neighbours are not going to want a sick child... that is if they are free as most of them work too.

What on earth do working parents do during sickness? Apparently even child minders don't take sick children so it isn't as though I can change to a child minder.

I do agree with others though that it could also be short sighted to prefer unpaid leave to using up her stash of annual leave, given they are actually increasing the time she will be off as she will have to take holiday as well. But there was mention upthread that suggested statistically she is less likely to take it if it is unpaid. So swings and roundabouts- they want to discourage it at all, but the fact is kids in nursery get sick, so there is a good chance she will have to take said unpaid leave as well. It is just a question of whether it acts as a deterrent so that she sends her sick children to nursery instead

Op,is your holiday year April till April?
I'd get some of that annual leave booked pronto if I were you!

Depends how senior and how many meetings though. If it is the md and he is booked up all day, meeting with important clients or ministers depending on sector, then that isn't good. Middle management yes, top dogs probably not.

jackie yes on the surface it's nuts, but it's a deterrant, possibly to force her to find another solution to cover child illness and/or change the economics of the argument over which parent takes time off.

Put it this way: OP says she has to take most of the days off rather than her DH because she earns less. By forcing her to lose pay if she stays home, it "encourages" them as a couple to find ways for DH to take some more of the days off, or find another solution. This wouldthen reduce the OP's last minute absences.

On the positive side, OP, they must value what you do in the office. And as I've said before, seniority can make it easier to rearrange your schedule and work from home. I think if you have jobs with different seniority it's easy to assume the burden should fall on the junior one, but couples who are at the same level manage just fine splitting it 50/50 and mostly manage not to get sacked for it.

Of course you are less likely to take unpaid etofd because it is restricted to being reasonable time off.
Whereas annual leave is 28 days +.
I don't get that argument

Also, easier to get stuff done remotely if it is because the car broke down, yes. Easier to get stuff done with a cranky 15 mo and 3 yo, hahahahaha. I had my sick kids (those ages) with me for one morning and a) didn't get much work done and b) my stress levels were through the roof. If they are anything like mine they want attention, and they scream their heads off every ten minutes if you plonk them in front of tv. Not sleeping peacefully upstairs while you.are free to do conference calls downstairs I did actually do one, it was lucky I didn't really need to contribute as it was on mute all the way through

OP - can I ask if your husband is generally involved in taking care of the kids / house or does he see it as your job? I get a sense that his attitude may be contributing to your stress.

That bloody woman. I don't mean less likely in terms of compared to previous levels of annual leave taking, I mean if she has to take unpaid etofd for the five days a year she is allowed to (and she clearly will have to given her current situation and sickness frequency) then she will still have all of her annual leave to take. So at the end of the year she will have taken 17 days holiday plus 5 days etofd and been absent for 22- longer than necessary. Whereas if she uses five days annual leave, her total is only 17.

They could still restrict it to reasonable time off at last minute to care for dependents, but allow her to choose between unpaid and annual leave to reduce her leave balance. And it would have to be limited to one day last minute annual leave at a time so she makes other arrangements etc. It is the part where she has been taking extended periods that is the problem, rather than whether it was holiday or unpaid.

If her DH was the MD, then I doubt they'd be giving her grief over this at all!

Yes, that is what I meant about him pulling strings. But if they work in completely separate departments he could be a divisional director and they may not know him/realise

"yes on the surface it's nuts"

No, it's not. It is so difficult to run a department/company/team and cope with unplanned leave. Holidays are known and can be planned around.

I don't know any organisations that run with excess staff. Most are stretched just covering planned leave. If you add in sick absence, mat leave, training then this kind of unplanned absence can have a significant negative impact on a business - to the extent of endangering other people's livelihoods.

It's selfish and shows a lack of consideration and respect for co-workers.

My first thought on this is why are they sick so much?

I'd be seriously worried if my DCs were I'll this often.

One was in ft nursery for 4 years, the other pt cm for 3 then 3hrsx5days in school nursery.

Neither ever caught s&d.

They both had chickenpox but that was it.

If I was in ops situation I'd be making an appointment with the GP to discuss their health/immunity. How is their diet? Are they getting enough vitamin c? Etc

I'd also arrange to speak to the nursery manager to talk about hygiene and their policies on allowing in sick kids.

How was their inspection report? I'd consider making a formal complaint if there are hygiene issues.

If he is a divisional director, then he'll probably be able to rearrange quite a lot of stuff. I know a few people at this sort of level and they tend to have a lot of flexibility.

My own boss is very senior in a large organisation. His diary is full most days, but he is able to drop stuff when he needs to look after his children - and he does!

People at that sort of level quite often have to re-prioritise for operational reasons in any case, so their diaries need to be quite flexible.

Until men start taking time out to care for dependants, women will always be at a disadvantage in the workplace.

But didn't she say dh was in London most of the week from Cardiff? If he is visiting a client site or their own head office he will probably arrange a packed schedule of meetings, and the travel time would make it harder for him to be flexible.

So will OP ironically end up being more absent at work, if she still has annual leave to use up & then uses carer's leave for her DC's illnesses?

OP - I really feel for you despite being a single woman with no kids, eg we tend to cover for people when they/their DC are off sick. It sucks when DC are sick and you can't be around for them and I totally get your not wanting to leave them with just anyone.

Childminder one option - live out nanny could be another (what a friend of mine with 3 DC did but live in).

Also why don't you have a sit down meeting with HR and explain what options you're looking at and maybe get them to review this in 2-3 months. Would your employers offer childcare vouchers if cost is an issue? Also your DH needs to chip in too despite his better paid job so he too should be speaking to HR.

Sadly unless you can sort this out you may well just have to give up work (lots of my friends with similar age DC have done this).

Holiday I've had this too in previous jobs where I've been sick more than I should be (not now, I literally have to be dying not to go to work) and though some employers at their discretion allow this the vast majority don't.

I suspect the employers rationale is that the cost of unpaid leave will make OP and her husband think about what they are doing.

I have looked after friends kids a few times while they have been ill. I regularly have weekdays days off as I work weekends. I don't mind being asked and the kids know me so don't seem to mind. If I can't help out and both parents have fixed work commitments they generally get one of their student babysitters to do it. Paying for extra care like this is one of the costs of working - like travel to work and buying a work wardrobe.

If you don't have local family OP I really think you need to look into your paid for or goodwill options. In an ideal world sick kids would be looked after by a parent but this isn't an ideal world.

One of my colleagues has recently come back from mat leave. I've had to sort cover for her because of a sick child now on the day at least three times. It is bloody annoying and I do wonder exactly what her husband is doing....

By all means give up work but bear in mind how hard it is to get back into work post SAHM-hood and the implications for your pension etc. only you can balance that up.

I agree with some of the others - you and your husbands attitude to your more junior job is part of the reason why women struggle to be taken seriously in the workplace.

Lotsofcheese potentially yes, but it's not really ironic. If it forces her to swap unplanned leave for planned, and her DH does more of the emergency cover because he can do it without losing pay, OP's employer would be much happier overall.

OP I do think you've had an unlucky run with illness and things are likely to improve. It might be worth considering other options like a formal career break /sabbatical before resigning outright.

I resent the suggestion that somehow women taking leave for childrens sickness makes them the villians of the piece and responsible for women not being taken seriously in the workplace.
Not everyone works on a corporate level.There are plenty of working class manual employees who need two wages on the table really,yet when emergency childcare and nannies etc are not financial options,leaving them actually worse off,something has to give.And in a situation with a part time shop worker and a full time lorry driver it'll be the shop worker who falls on their sword,male or female.
Blame the real issue,which is lack of affordable childcare,rather than women who have their backs against the wall.
Forging a way ahead for women doesn't always pay the bills.

I resent the suggestion that somehow women taking leave for childrens sickness makes them the villians of the piece and responsible for women not being taken seriously in the workplace.
Not everyone works on a corporate level.There are plenty of working class manual employees who need two wages on the table really,yet when emergency childcare and nannies etc are not financial options,leaving them actually worse off,something has to give.And in a situation with a part time shop worker and a full time lorry driver it'll be the shop worker who falls on their sword,male or female.
Blame the real issue,which is lack of affordable childcare,rather than women who have their backs against the wall.
Forging a way ahead for women doesn't always pay the bills.

Agreed! And until we have equal pay, it's often the lesser paid, usually female employee who pays the ultimate price.

Is this part of the reason we don't have equal pay though?

I think YABU OP.

It is not your employers fault you have dc, and your problem with cover is one of the reason some parents feel they are unable to take a job.
Whilst I sympathise 12 days is a lot of time off work and in some jobs you would have been sacked for this.
You need to find cover or change your job to one that will either be flexible or fits in with your partners work.

I resent the suggestion that somehow women taking leave for childrens sickness makes them the villians of the piece and responsible for women not being taken seriously in the workplace.

I think you are missing the point. The problem isn't that women take time off to care for sick children, the problem is when they don't expect their husbands/partners to do likewise. Why should the woman's employer take the entire hit?

There is nothing wrong with needing to take time off to care for dependants. I have done this, and I am more than happy for staff to do the same. However, it does have an impact in the workplace, and there is an onus on employees to minimise this impact. This includes sharing the time off equally and making alternative arrangements where necessary.