Work being difficult about covering child illness

[Dontnic]

Help. Tell me I am not unreasonable. I am part time, earn a lot less than my DH and have a far junior job. We have 2 children at nursery at the moment and between them I have needed to take off 12 days since July when I went back to work (I work 3 days a week) to cover illness.

They both had chicken pox, which lasted over 5 of my working days. Also, they keep getting S&D that does the rounds in the nursery. This means if they get it on my 1st day of the week, they can't go back in at all that week due to the 48 hour rule.

DH has had some days off to cover illness, but it just doesn't make sense for him to take equal time off when he has targets to hit, meetings to attend for clients/prospects etc. If his job is affected we are financially buggered. So he does take time off but I do the lions share.

Work have now had enough and said that I can no longer take my holiday at last minute notice to cover child sickness and I have to take unpaid time off for dependants.

However, the BIG sticking point is that they deem a 'reasonable' amount of time for this as up to 24 hours. So I can leave at 2pm but need to be back in the office for 9 the next day. That is the exact example they gave.

I've called my union and they said that this was correct! Apparently the law says 'reasonable' time off but various other places deem reasonable to be up to 24 hours as it is only to arrange alternative care - not to give that care yourself.

I have no family in the area and friends/neighbours are not going to want a sick child... that is if they are free as most of them work too.

What on earth do working parents do during sickness? Apparently even child minders don't take sick children so it isn't as though I can change to a child minder.

Not in this situation "TSS", the employee has been allowed a significant amount of leeway but has now been told that it is no longer possible to do this. She has not gained a contractual right through custom and practice to take annual leave without giving any notice. It would have had to have been going on for years and even so it would be difficult to run as a contract argument.

Your tea break situation sounds like a weak employer who couldn't be bothered to run the argument with the union. Some changes can certainly become contractual by custom and practice, the most common changes that become contractual in that way are start and finish times or extra payments made for overtime etc.

OP, I sympathise, but your employer is NBU.

I'm in a similar situation, DP has a higher-paid F/T job & works away regularly. I'm P/T & senior (NHS) but with no working from home, flexi-hours etc. But he does do his share of sick leave cover for DC's. We have no family nearby/in good health.We paid £££ to have DC vaccinated against CP as we knew we would not be able to cover the amount of time off work.

In your situation, I would seriously think about a nanny rather than nursery. At the moment you're paying for nursery places & unable to use them due to DC's illness, so a nanny may actually be more cost-effective. In my experience, CM's won't take a child for 48 hrs with D&V either, but the amount of illness will be significantly less.

It really is shit; the amount of juggling DP & I have had to do this last year while DD started nursery has been mind-boggling.

Have you actually used all your holiday leave up hence that you now have to use dependents leave?

I know you have 17 days per annum but it's pro-rated and often you can't take it in advance of actually earning it if that makes sense? It might just be that "computer is saying no"

You need to find some reliable back up childcare or you are going to have to give up your job. Emergency nannies often won't cover infectious illnesses in case they pick it up themselves. Plus they cost a fortune. Have a look at sitters or other websites and try to find someone like a retired person who may be physically capable of doing the odd day here and there.

Persistent D&V from the nursery though - I'd start to wonder about their standards and look at alternatives.

The chicken pox is a sod - if you take it out of your totals you don't fall that far beyond the norms for parents with small children. You simply can't down tools though when you only work 3 days, as there's no Thurs/Fri to catch up so you still need some alternative childcare even if it is someone to supervise while you WFH. My manager is ok with this but I have to be properly set up to do it, not just a laptop on a kitchen table - I agree that you can't just hand over a sick non verbal child to a complete stranger and go off to work.

I'd request a meeting with your line manager and admit that your absence record has been poor even if it has been taken as holiday. 5 days of it won't reoccur it can be argued [I've been carrying forward 5 days holiday to cover chickenpox for 2 yrs now] and you will try to put cover in place. Being seen to be willing is sometimes half the battle.

I don't think you are taking the piss. Not intentionally at any rate. You are not going to keep your job unless DH steps up more or you bite the bullet and accept that you need home cover.

You are taking a lot of time off work. Most busnesses wouldn't allow this. It is difficult but you need to make arrangements with another Mother to step in and you will do the same for her if it's days you don't work or at weekends. Or the other alternative is to work when your DH is at home as in weekends or evenings.

I agree with MaCosta on this in that the discretionary agreement for the op to take short notice annual leave on a case by case basis,does not constitute custom and practice.
(Whereas I think a long standing regular tea break might )

Just to be completely clear ThatBloodyWoman I have not stated I believe the op should be sacked. You asked a question, I answered it as pointed out by other posters (thank you to those that did!).

I have a realistic and balanced opinion of the workforce based on experience and research as guessed by MaCosta.

Custom and practice would relate to what is the generally done thing in that particular workplace. For a specific person it would be an implied term.

It would be interesting to see what others in the op's workplace do/are permitted to do.

Thanks Macosta. Very weak employer is correct. But it's still surprising what people feel they're entitled to doesn't it, particularly when it's being taken away.

Sorry, MovingOn.
All subsequent posts of mine weren't directed at you.
More the concept that the op is/ has been taking the piss,and some suggestion,not yours,that the op should get the sack!
Imho she has done nothing wrong.
She has taken what they were willing to give,but now that is at an end and a new chapter begins.
Hopefully a healthier one!

Oh - my line manager is ok with the odd emergency day's holiday because I can demonstrate that the 48 hr rule is shared with my DH. I am signed up with an emergency nanny service for anything longer than 2 days shared leave. Register in advance, lots of information shared about children's allergies/likes/dislikes etc and so we are ready to roll if we need to. Bit of an ouch factor financially but long term gain in retaining our jobs.

In my case it's a double whammy as I employ a full-time nanny with a toddler, but if she is ill or her dependent child is too ill to take to work with her, then we all have to step up and juggle. Her DH got threatened with the sack for taking a days leave at short notice to cover the second day of their child's illness. First time he's ever done it with a 3yo so it was a bit rich I thought.

Still - on the upside for your employer - if you've burned all your holiday, dealing with winter bugs you're all sorted to cover your colleagues throughout the summer holidays.....

Vivienne that's been one of many suggestions made. Not seen a reply from OP. As to whether she's considered/would consider that.

This is part of the reason why I was a sahm. I can see how you've ended up with so much time off work, illnesses can be constant with small kids. However your employer is getting buggered as clearly they need the work done. It's a no win situation and I have sympathy for you and your employer.

My office is particularly family friendly as we are about 70% women with children. Our managers are very generous with last minute issues and we have no limit on dependence days which are given freely.

However, you'd be on performance management even with us. You are extremely lucky imo to be oniy being challenged now

DH and I both did the Cardiff to London commute for many many years. We decided when we had DD that we weren't going to do it anymore and set up our own company. DH goes away when it can't be avoided - 9 months during DD's first year - but we've structured the business so that I can work when I want to and what DH brings in from fewer hours (mostly working from home) covers me not working. With no other childcare it's the only way we're prepared to do it.

As a manager, I'm about as forgiving as they come with regard to childcare emergencies, if I feel that the employee is doing everything that they possibly can to minimise the disruption. However, I would be far less forgiving of someone who didn't share the childcare with their partner because his/her job was more important.

There is flexibility and there is letting someone take the piss. The two are not the same.

OP - I feel for you but your employer has a point that you are missing a lot of work.

DH and I are in the same position and living here in the US our jobs are 'at-will' which means they don't even need a reason to get rid of you.

Best way to deal with it is to find childcare that is better at disease control. Give your DC vitamin tables and see if it helps. I give my kids a bath every night and while DS got eczema neither of them got sick. Since doing bathtime twice a week for him he gets sick a whole lot more.

I would consider a childminder and other nurseries and place emphasis on providers that can offer you some or a little bit of flexibility around days where you can work. While I can work remotely, its a struggle to catch up as I need my sleep. What I will do is work an extra day or two the following week(s). Have a think about if this is something you can offer your employer.

Also, I have a few lists of people to call when in need of childcare. When an emergency comes up I send a text out to the first 3 and if I don't get a reply in 15mins I go to the next 3. I have 15 people on my weekend list and about 45-50 people on my workweek list along with days and times they are available. It is horrible to have to do this but if you are going to stay working you need to be able to perform the duties you were employed to perform.

Haven't read all the replies so not sure if anyone else has suggested this but perhaps if you changed to childminder they might get sick less as would be mixing with smaller ratio of children? I understand your plight as my dh is main earner so always has to me that does the sickness!

Why don't you advertise it as a casual job. When my DD was at uni she helped out a local family with baby sitting in the evening but was also able to cover in the day if she didn't have lectures. Or maybe someone retired would be interested.

When mine were young I worked parttime and so did two other mums in my road. We used to cover for each other. One summer our kids went on three 2 week holidays, each family took a two week holiday and took all six kids. Murder but it doesn't last forever.

Dependant on where you are,it can be tricky to find one type of childcare,let alone 45 -50 people who are prepared to take a sick child .
Thats some support network you have Want2be !

I really feel for you. Your employers are in the right legally, but it sucks. There's a reason so many women don't return to work until DC start school and this is it - in those early years they're off sick so often! I am of the opinion that unless you are well-enough paid to afford a nanny or have family who can help out, it's incredibly difficult for many women to pursue a career for the first few years of motherhood.

1 in 5 working mothers rely on family to help them maintain a job. Quite how that's going to work when we're all working 'til we're 150 and told to move around (away from family) to follow the jobs, I don't know...

WHAT !?
You think your employer is unreasonable ? You are joking.
If you worked FT you would have 2 months per year off!

YABVU - You presumably signed a contract stating you would work X hours for X pay.
Your CC arrangements are not your employers concern .
You don't want to leave your DC with anyone else then don't sign the contract !

DH and I worked back to back so we wouldn't have this problem.

Did you both change your jobs when you had dc's,or just one of you,or was it what you did anyway Rita ?
What a perfect solution,but not one available to all,unfortunately.

Im going to give up work. I've discussed it with dh and he thinks we can't go on with the stresses of covering illnesses. I will stop work for a few years and then try to get back in to work. I will be giving my career a knock, but quite frankly, it has taken a massive knock being part time. I am already thought of within the office far lower just because I'm part time - not because of lots of holiday for illness!

I worked full time with 1 child and it wasn't too bad for illness. He did get sick but 2 days off when you are working 5 somehow doesn't seem so bad.

when I had 2 children I went down to 3 days. But 2 children doubled the chances of illness! So I had more illness to cover and less days to work.

My career will be buggered. I have a degree, masters, diploma, professional qualifications and I will use non of them for the next 3 years. It is such a waste.

I do understand work, but I am between a rock and a hard place.

It might be better to leave with a decent reference rather than be sacked OP.
I doubt your colleagues care whether you work part time but rather that they don't have to constantly cover for you.

I'm in the same position as you but have taken maybe 2 days off in the last two years. When I have had to take the day off I usually make the time up on another day rather than take leave. I have a childminder who is amazingly flexible. This makes things much easier in terms of my flexibility for the company. Also I can do bits from home, so would maybe manage 4 hours out of 7.5 hours working while the kids watch TV or sleep / play.