to tell Dh I no longer want to be SAHM to 2 month old and to be a SAHD?

[MrsDutchie]

Dh is a PhD student in the final stages of submitting his research. I've been on mat leave since November and whilst I love PFB to bits, I don't want to be a SAHM much longer - it's driving me crazy. I miss my work so much I've taken on part-time consultancy work with a charity. If I go back to work, a fair amount of the money goes straight back to childcare if Dh continues with studies.

I don't get why it's not the other way round. I have the job but Dh's logic is he will eventually get the well paid job. Sod eventually - why does the fact I have vagina mean I have to stay at home and look after PFB? I have a career and interests too. He just sees her at evenings and on nice family days and I'm driving up the wall here desperate to work again.

Like I said, I love PFB but why should the fact I have boobies and gave birth mean I'm faced with this dilemma and Dh gets to waltz through guilt-free without any concerns or repercussions about how selfish he is if he goes back to work.

Any other MNers had a similar dilemma? What did you do? I'm not looking to get flamed for how selfish I am or that it was my choice to have kids. I stand where I stand on this and I want to balance both

Just to be clear, I don't think wanting to go back to work two months postpartum is indicative of PND. My thoughts were more to do with the terseness of some of the posts, and the feeling coming across that this is an unsolvable problem with lots of irritation around that, when there seem to be many logical ways to achieve this - go back to work, get a childcarer, be clear childcare needs to be split and work to make that happen.

I'm also very well aware I could be totally wrong.

Incidentally, you can have PND and be very well bonded. Though some women experience bonding issues, it's not true for everyone or necessary for the diagnosis. I was lucky never to have issues in this regard, and I had the full psychiatric team treatment as was quite severe.

Never wait to do something important while someones writes up a phd.

I spent 2 years waiting a few more weeks for DH to write up. Luckily I found some good stuff to do and even got paid for it...but still.

Now I have students of my own and it is totally impossible to predict how long it takes to write up.

I would have thought procrastinating about writing up and looking after a baby would be a perfect match....

You have a job, you can earn money now.....it doesn't make sense to not do that. The PhD will either get written in the naps...or when the child goes into childcare.

How much annual leave allowance do you have with your job? - could you go back full time but have a regular 1/2 days 'holiday' a week so you are still getting paid full time but can share the childcare part time.

Totally reasonable for you to work 3/4 days him to study 3/4 days for the next 3 months and then he can look for a job and be a SAHP until he finds one, and then both of you can work and you will be able to afford childcare.

Of course many women do suffer from PND and it's a terrible thing - my mother had post natal psychosis which was even worse and still affects her today in many ways. However, I think some posters have come quite close to saying that a woman who has a 2 month old who wants to work must have mental health issues and I think that is really problematic. Some women just aren't well suited to caring for a baby full-time. As others have pointed out, most American women are back at work at this point and I don't think it causes an entire generation to have attachment disorders.

I think the obvious solution here is compromise - I don't think it's reasonable for the OP's DH to have everything his way, which is the current situation. I think he should work part-time on his thesis - say three days a week - and then the OP can go back to work for two days and he can look after the baby. It really shouldn't slow him down that much, I bet like most PhD students, he's doing a certain amount of procrastination/faffing about at the moment anyway. If/when he gets a job, they can reassess.

Just to clarify - as far as I'm aware - I don't have PND. I'm not running away from the unbearableess of looking after a baby. I love being at home with PFB but I also value my career and personal objectives, especially at what is a crucial time for me. Ideally I'd love dh to look after PFB - that was the point of the whole thread which I think has been lost in the rhetoric of a mother 'abandoning' her baby for some posters. I felt frustrated that right now I was taking primary childcare responsibilities when I think it would be more sensible for dh to do so, and also I want to. Not because I'm mentally ill!!!!!

I want to be clear I didn't think of PND because I thought you were "running away from the unbearableness of looking after a baby". I do not think that going back to work = abandoning your baby, or that you shouldn't place value on your career and personal objectives, which are very understandable reasons for going back to work at any point for anyone.

I thought it might be a possibility as you seem quite hooked on the idea that your dh needs to look after your child as the only possible solution and, in the absence of that, to come across as feeling trapped and with no options and giving lots of reasons that this is an imposssible situation, though it appears to be only for 12 weeks?

Is there a reason that your baby can't go into childcare at this time that I've missed in your posts? Financial? Are you uncomfortable with that idea? I'm sorry if this has been said and I've missed it.

Although I'd like to point out that whilst most of the responses have been great, some have been shocking!!! Insinuating that I'm a terrible mother, mentally ill, hormonal, confused, selfish, should give child up for adoption etc reminds me that we still have a long way to go in gender equality - even amongst Mumsnetters! I would like those posters to go tell that to their dps or dhs if they have one, because you wouldn't. Would you?

Responding to suggestions saying they wouldn't work for us is not insinuating an impossible situation.

I wasn't just responding to your post.

My post about your mental wellbeing was based on my own experiences and the quality of your responses to some of the questions posted to you, and as I said has absolutely NOTHING to do with gender equality. Nothing. I was also VERY CLEAR this might not apply to you.

I also don't care for the way you categorise two concerned posts about mental wellbeing in a frame with "hormonal, confused, selfish, terrible mother". PND is not a swear word designed to undermine you when it comes from someone who has had that experience, believe it or not.

Anyway, good luck with it. I hope you can resolve it to your satisfaction as soon as possible.

Is there a reason that your baby can't go into childcare at this time that I've missed in your posts? Financial? Are you uncomfortable with that idea? I'm sorry if this has been said and I've missed it.

I don't think that many (if any) nurseries or childminders would take a two month old baby so as well as being expensive that option would not be possible. Some people seem to completely miss the fact that OP and her family need the money and that means either she or her DH need to do some paid work. Considering that she already has a job and he doesn't it makes sense for her to do paid work and for him to write up his PhD part time.

Again - there's been a string of posts across this thread that I'm referring to.

I find it ironic that because I'm quite short and direct, I'm 'agitated' and therefore might have PND. Or that I want to action this fast - just my personality and the urgency of the situation - also a sign of PND?

I'm just so shocked that this discussion amongst other themes in this thread has ensued. To even insinuate PND because I don't want to be primary home carer and then call red flags based upon my rationale behind. Nope. Not cool. I call sexism even if you don't see it.

Oh and whoever it was - to say 'you seem rational' and then drop the PND bomb. Well I have a few choice words for that but you might also interpret that as a symptom of PMD ??

I remember desperately wanting to go back to work when my DS was about 2 months old and we were looking round nurseries ready for when I did go back at 8 months. Anything to have my independence and life back again.

You don't have to be a SAHM if that's not for you and I do think your DH, PHD studies or not, should be more sympathetic to this. Until he finishes you may have to carry on with part time work and then suck up child care fees. When he finishes, you could both work either FT or PT depending on what you can get and what works financially. I went back to work 2 days a week when DS was 8 months old and it wasn't enough for me, so I upped it to 3 days when he was 22 months old.

If I was posting in the style you are, I would be agitated. This does not apply to you, but no one knows you, and people can only respond based on their experience. You want to call this sexism, fine. I really couldn't give a rat's arse about women being primary home carers, and think it makes far more sense for your dh to do it. I think people were possibly confused by the fact the money didn't come into the OP and then that you hadn't ever discussed this with your dh before now but it needs to be dealt with urgently and that there were a lot of snappy responses and telling people you didn't want to discuss x or y. That may just be your posting style, fair enough.

So if I'm reading this correctly, you had discussed you staying at home for six months, but now you have no money and you can go back to work but your dh is saying a categorical no. So your post should be in relationships, I guess.

Again, PND is not a dirty word or an insult. You've said it doesn't apply to you so you can let it be now and move on.

I didn't have PND either, just enjoy working and wasn't prepared for the reality of a small baby.

Boedicia - when have I ever mentioned the ease of work compared to looking after PFB? Why is this even being discussed - it's not even close to the issue here!!!

I have not once given any indication about the ease or difficulty of looking after PFB. This is happening because I'm the mother and want to work. You're as bad as my Dh! Were you hoping that I would work through some painful period of looking after a baby, would see the light and that it gets better and stick at it?!! Blimey. If you must know, PFB has been an absolute joy to look after through the difficult and more pleasant bits!

And PFB is on her third trimester and needs her parents.

Well said, OP. I'm sorry you're getting so much judgemental and frankly sexist comment on here.

It's probably best not to try to diagnose PND on the internet, or to try to find evidence of mental illness in the perceived 'terseness' of someone's posting style.

And 'writing up' is, as far as I'm aware (I work in higher ed), the proper term for someone, um, writing up their PhD.

So now because I snap back at insinuations made about my mental well-being, parenting and decision to want to work, I'm agitated? Oh Lordy.

No, PND is not a dirty word. It's a serious mental illness. The discussion of which should not be taken lightly or thrown at every problem or situation.

MrsDuchie, please ignore the unhelpful and judgmental posters, you don't have to justify yourself.

I have only ready your posts on the thread (as well as a few others), so apologies if what I'm going to say has already been said!

While writing up a PhD can be incredibly stressful, it is also, usually, fairly flexible. It should be possible for him to intercalate for a period of time, I know PhD students (including male ones!) who have done so after having a baby, including one man who intercalated for a whole year. Even if he just does it for a few months so you can get back on your feet financially. He could even do some writing up during this period so he is then in a good position when he starts up again.

It seems though that the real problem is that he sees it as your job to look after the baby, because you are a woman.

I know it doesn't sound like you're considering it anyway, but under no circumstances would I move to his country to move in with his family.

Thanks OnlyLovers and others who have kindly jumped to my defence

This is a key issue here - how close DH really is to completion. It's so difficult to measure it at this point and I've seen plenty a PhD student travel a long and rocky road to completion. As a typical PhD student, Dh is obsessed with his research and it might take him time (we don't seem to have financially) to learn to adapt to PFB and be more flexible.

I've taken on board a lot of the suggestions here with discussions points for Dh and a timetable so he can think about what this would look like in practice and a spreadsheet for finances so he can see the cold hard facts so to speak!

I have a GP check-up later. I'll be sure to tell him about my snappiness

No, I said you're not agitated, I would be if I was posting like this. I said at the outset this might not apply to you, I was sharing it as it was my experience. It doesn't apply to you, so let it go. Honestly, I just read it and saw parallels with my own experience. It isn't relevant to you so you don't need to spend any more time thinking about it and you certainly don't need to be mortally offended at the very suggestion or assume it's borne of sexism. As it dominated my life for over a year, I don't take the discussion of it lightly, you just sounded so much like I did in some of your posts. So no need for the little eyebrow raising faces. Good for you, this doesn't apply to you. Onwards and upwards.

how close DH really is to completion

Yep. I was 'just about to submit' for about a year...

There's no way I'm moving abroad! I have my friends here and there's lots of free fun things to do with PFB here. Also, I love his parents but nooooooo way!

At 8 weeks post partum, there are loads of hormonal and psychological issues which are only really relevant to women. Many, many women at that stage are functioning quite differently to normal. I didn't have PND, I was delighted to have a baby and I had a supportive DH who was home as much as possible, but I was absolutely not my normal self. I didn't want to be away from my baby at all and that is quite a widespread experience. I think for women who do feel like that it is so overwhelming that it's hard to imagine other women feeling differently (but of course it is also well within the spectrum of normal to feel differently). So I do think it's worthwhile thinking about whether you are thinking in the same way as you normally would and whether the sense of urgency you have is realistic. Maybe it is just your personality and normal for you, but we don't know!

am not being sexist here btw, my DH wanted to spend as much time as possible with DS too and worked from home for two months after the birth. In your DH's shoes, had I felt like you, I am pretty certain he would have taken on the childcare.

What was your plan before you gave birth incidentally? Which of you has changed your mind?

Haven't read the whole thread but...
It was only about 10 years ago when women pretty much HAD to go back to work when the baby was 3 months old.
I went when my first one was 5 months.
I don't think nurseries would have become so de-skilled in this area that they will freak out if they have a 2 and a half month old...
Go back to work. Pay for it.
Review when Phd is finished...