To be scared of death?

[dragdownthemoon]

I am terrified of what happens after death. I have nightmares about it, I have panic attacks when I think about it. I don't want to be a ghost cursed to wander the earth alone or trapped in a hell dimension, or just all alone in the dark. No one knows what happens when we die and I am terrified of what will happen. I tried to talk to DH about it, he actually laughed at me and says he has no concept of why on earth I could be bothered by this.

Does anyone else get freaked out by the thought of what happens when we die? I am tormented by it and there is no escape, death is coming to us all

it's where scientists draw a blank

I do think about it, but there's things I think about a lot more. If it was a being as such it isn't one who cares about humans.

As for how well we fit our environment:

"This an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.’” Douglas Adams

Ultimately we only talk about how well we suit the environment because we are here to do so because we evolved through a unthinkably slow process of evolution through the survival of the fittest model.

it just can't be discounted

Have you discounted all of the other creation stories from other belief systems? How did you go about discounting them?

Exactly bigblue...... but that's where faith comes in. You see I believe, even though it's something that can't be proved. On the other hand you can't prove that there isn't.

Anyway I'm going to get ready, I'm going out for the evening. If you're still here when I get back we'll carry on. Bye for now.

salt- it is you making the claims not me. There lies the burden of proof.

Can you disprove the pixies in my fridge- probably not. Does that make them any more likely to exist? No.

Remember the moment clearly when ds, aged about 4 I think, piped up from the back seat of car "So who made God then?" Smart kid

Smart kid indeed- a clever question for a 4 year old.

you can't prove that there isn't

You don't actually use that model of logic in your everyday life. In every other area, and particularly areas that really matter, you use your physical senses and logic. 'There's a car coming, it will hit me if I cross, I will wait until it has passed', 'I will vaccinate my children to protect them' 'I had better lock my door as I am off out to work now' and so on.

Pixies have been pinching lots from my fridge I think bigblue or could just be teenagers on half-term?! Fortunately dh just brought home a couple of quiches, and a bottle of wine - And milk for breakfast

If it is pixies there must be some hard evidence- do you have pixie footprints in your butter?

Wine and milk sound an interesting breakfast must be something from the Old Testament.

I may be exaggerating about the age (as mothers are wont to do) Indulge me! Neverthless I do remember the occasion clearly Possibly 6 ish?

< checks for pixie footprints - probs as butter not in the fridge, our kitchen is cold enough for butter preservation ATM >

Open your heart, look around you, you'll see evidence of God everywhere.

But which God?

Everyone's convinved their God is the man. They can't all be right. All people of faith are convinced they're right, and the evidence is all around them.

They can't all be right.

And nobody with faith has responded to my question about who gets admitted through the pearly gates on death. Only people who accept Jesus, as far as I can tell. But that doesn't explain why vast swathes of Jews and Muslims aren't accepting Jesus into their hearts.

The whole point about God is that He always was. If something created God then He would not be God. Fairly simple stuff really. People seem happy to accept that either the universe was always there or it suddenly appeared from nothing in the Big Bang. Is there a third theory? Any current option takes a massive leap of faith. Once you have accepted that things can be eternal or accepted that something as vast and as awesomely beautiful as the universe can come from nothing at all then in my humble opinion you are entering the realms of the supernatural.

re WHO gets into heaven, I'd prefer God to be the judge of that. I would never presume to tell someone that they will not be going to heaven. It is not me who decides!
re which God, Islam,Judaism and Christianity all trace their roots back to Abraham who worshipped Yahweh. Some Hindu's claim to be monotheistic and their multiple gods are just embodiments of the ultimate Brahman. So that is a large percentage of the world who believe in ONE GOD who is author and creator of the universe.

Granted it's all pretty awesome either way vdb - is that's what you're saying

But really it's simpler without the supernatural

Not simple but simpler. And IMHO these days more likely

Nevetheless I think there can be a place for religion in terms of local faith communities and the importance of story, and support of friends, as inspiration and help on the human journey

We lost a young person in our family last year vdb It became very clear to me at that time, standing beside his hospital bed, that there can be no judgement, no two places. Wherever we're going we're all going to the same place. And that's probably a peaceful nothingness, as it was before we were conceived. An eternal sleep if you like.

vb - there is a third theory- a cyclical model, big bang, long expansion, big crunch, big bang and so on. An infinite model.

Why must we resort to superstition to explain things we don't understand.

My wonder and amazement at the universe would be vastly lessened if I thought someone had created it. It would cease to be authentic if it just a big christian theme park with some old geezer behind the curtains.

re WHO gets into heaven, I'd prefer God to be the judge of that. I would never presume to tell someone that they will not be going to heaven.

Plenty of other religious people have no trouble doing just that, sadly.

This thread has consolidated my thinking more than ever. That a supernatural being created the universe is as likely an explanation as any other, in the absence of actual knowledge. And that our manifestation of that being, i.e. religion in its wide variety of outfits, is deeply flawed.

As humans, we just don't understand, do we...

The bible makes it very clear that the only way to heaven is to accept jesus as saviour.

". "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me," (John 14:6)"

It is clear that discounts Atheists and those from religions that do not accept that message.
Being a good person doesn't count- unless you are christian.

'It would cease to be authentic if it just a big christian theme park with some old geezer behind the curtains.'

Ahahaha! You are very funny, bigblue.

I'm not scared of dying at all, not any more. I am far more worried about my loved ones dying- not because I think there's anything terrible (or anything heavenly for that matter) beyond the grave. Just simply because going on living without people you love is very painful.

I watched both of my parents die and they had 'good' deaths, for which I'm grateful. It was sad and strange, but not frightening. And it was such a privilege to be there at the end.

I agree the bible is clear that Jesus is the way to God.
I personally would never presume to know whether or not someone had a relationship with Jesus, and I would also assume that if someone was too young to understand or decide,or did not have the cognitive function,or had never heard the gospel message, then they might not be held responsible by God,but who am I to presume to judge what God may or may not do?
I am glad though that it is not all about being a 'good' person. Some people are never taught to be 'good'. We all have the ability to behave well and behave badly and we all do both. Whether we are a peadophile,drug addict,prostitute,murderer,professor, vicar or queen of England, we are equally precious to God and being a 'good' person is not a necessity but something that should start to naturally occur in more abundance once you become a follower of Jesus because you are hopefully using him as a role model.

Some good points raised there Vdbfamily.

Am only part way through thread so apologies if this book has already been mentioned.

Late Fragments by Kate Gross

She lived our nightmare; diagnosed with terminal cancer when she was 34 and her twin boys were just 3. However, this isn't a tragic cancer memoir but - as the subtitle says- Everything I want to tell you about this Magnificent Life

Robert Webb gives a much better explanation than I could about the book here

then they might not be held responsible by God

That right there is you using your own sense of right and wrong. You have no reason to think that god would use such a fair and 'case by case' system to judge people, the bible doesn't back you up, Jesus doesn't back you up, but your conscience tells you that we are all individuals and there are a myriad of very reason why people do not believe in Jesus, and that you would find it abhorrent if god was as arbitrary as as the bible suggests he is.