To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

[jujujbel]

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

Sorry for typos - should be 'have you heard?' and 'don't understand why they feel the need '

YANBU

I have friends from several different countries whose children are bilingual. They never, ever break off to speak to each other in their own language - all consider it very rude to leave anyone out of a conversation.

I agree with you - my bil and sil do this all the time and sometimes I know that they are commenting on something I've said (I understand more than they think i do!).

Other relatives of mine have terrible english so will revert to their native tongue but it is always explained in english what was said (in brief). It is impossible to have a conversation when you're not part of all of it!

I remember going on a sleep over to a friends and at dinner the family chatted away in a language I didn't know. I ended up crying at bedtime and my mum picked me up - felt really excluded as I knew they could all speak fluent english.

Thank you - genuinely devastated that a solid friendship has been so rocked by this

I think many people who are raising their children bilingual make it a rule that each parent speaks to the children in their own language at all times, so as not to confuse the two languages. So I guess it might be that she simply never speaks to her kids in English.

You're right though, if it is part of the general conversation it's rude.

I'm really not sure there's right or wrong on either side really, it's just one of those difficult things.

I know families who use their other language in front of only English speakers sometimes, but culturally they couldn't be more open and warm and welcoming so I'd never hold it against them.

Sometimes we just need to see that rude means different things to people of different cultures.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable, although I can see your point. I speak to DS in my native language - I want him to be able to understand it properly, and I'm the only one who speaks it (DH is English). I don't do it to exclude anyone, and I certainly wouldn't speak about someone else without them understanding. It's about holding on to a part of your heritage, and giving it to your children. I think that's important.

My son's friends mum does this all the time with her son. I find it incredibly rude and often wonder whether she does' realise or simply doesn't care?

YANBU but she isn't either.

Having grown up with a family from one part of the country but living in another part I have grown up with two accents.

If a relative is visiting I switch accent mid sentence if addressing them or addressing everyone but looking at the relative. My brain does it completely automatically, o don't think to do it.

The only time it doesn't happen is if I'm feeling defensive due to being somewhere I feel the mother-accent will be judged, in which case I focus and remain in the accent of my locality.

So YANBU for wanting English only if you haven't learned her language, but YABU to feel she was being deliberately rude - she is just relaxed around you and willing to be her true multilingual self.

Hazelshade - that seems to be my friends perspective which I do appreciate. However, how can that few minutes of conversation in a group context really benefit the fluency of the language when there are so many other opportunities to speak together?

I know loads of couples who talk in different languages to their children but in company where it is a conversation (not where just talking to the child) they will speak in the language everyone else is speaking in.

If people continue their conversation in a language you don't understand they are basically excluding you from the conversation you were previously part of.

I think YABU, if you know deep down that it's nothing bad about you then let it go. You don't have to be included in every conversation even if you are there. I see why you might feel a bit uncomfortable but you shouldn't expect your friend to behave any differently. She and her DC are bilingual so talking in both languages is normal for them. Maybe you should make an effort to learn some of the language yourself (even just a couple of words) so you won't feel so alien.

I am in a similar position when I am with DHs family, but it doesn't bother me and I actually enjoy being exposed to a different language. I know they are not saying anything about me and don't find it rude. I think you are the rude one in your scenario

My SIl is Spanish but has lived in the UK for 20 years with my English DB and her Dc were born here.She talks to the children all the time in Spanish so that they are bilingual and can talk to their Spanish relatives.She says she finds it quite an effort because she 'thinks in English' after so many years in the UKT.hey reply to her in English though and are getting to the age (7 & 4) where they feel embarassed by her speaking Spanish to them in public

Being true to your multilingual self shouldn't mean that you switch from one language to another, excluding half of the people present - especially when the person you are speaking to you in your native language is perfectly able to converse fluently in English.

I think my struggle is that my friend is a fantastic, warm and generous person who cares very much about other people and I know she does not mean to make me feel uncomfortable. I am just struggling because I do not like how it makes me feel. I really appreciate the replies.

YANBU

As a child I remember being invited to a birthday party where the parents were Welsh. (We lived in England and were MILES from Wales) Both parents could speak fluent English and I don't think their children could speak more than the odd few words of Welsh. However, at the party the parents spoke Welsh to each other despite having a house full of guests. I remember feeling quite uncomfortable as it felt to me as though they could quite easily have been talking about us.

I would have assumed that they were only doing this in their own home when their guests were children because we woudln't notice (well I did!) but my Mum said she had been at a village event where they would occasionally turn to each other and pass comments in Welsh despite being surrounded by lots of other adults who could not understand them.

BTW - this is not meant to be an anti-Welsh rant. Substitute any language you like for Welsh in these situations.

But Hubb - in this example the OP is part of the conversation and is then being excluded as it is continued in the other language. They may well return to english but then you've missed part of it!

I have the foreign in laws too and don't mind them speaking in their native tongue. however, if they are talking to me and then go into their native tongue to exclude me then that is rude. Regardless of whether they are discussing me/what i said or not.

My children are bilingual but my skills in 2nd language are poor so I have always spoken in English when speaking directly to my children even in front of their friends.

We also have friends of other nationalities who speak English as a second language, I have always respected their desire to keep their own language and use it in our presence however recently after our dds had falling out my friend then discussed it with her dd in front of us in their own language so although we couldn't understand what they were saying we heard my dds name repeated numerous times and it was truly awful for both me and my daughter.

I now try not to speak English when my dc have friends over. I am so embarrassed I did this before and you are absolutely NBU! Stand your ground with this one.

If it is such an important relationship to you maybe you could say can we come to a compromise...if you make an effort to exclude us a bit less and I make an effort to learn a couple of phrases with DD then we can all enjoy our time together more?

I totally agree with you, it's rude and unpleasant. For all you know, they could be talking about you. My mum is from Armenia and married my British born father. I can understand a little Armenian, but not enough for conversation. When the Armenian relatives came round, they would be talking in Armenian and using other familiar languages like Greek and Turkish, I would be sitting there like a lemon. Sometimes I got so bored I would play in my room. Yes they were talking about me, as I could hear my name mentioned a few times.

YABU.

Unless she is using her own language with you?

YANBU for finding it rude but I think YABU in the way you handled it. You essentially let your daughter have the conversation that you have never plucked up the courage to have yourself with your friend. That not fair and a bit underhand and I think you fucked up the friendship there, not your friend.

As a side note I realised a couple of weeks ago that a friend I have known for 15 years or so, who speaks English as a second language and I had never heard her speak in her native tongue. She had a brief phone call from her mother and it was so strange! She regrets not raising her children to speak both and says it was because of pressure for them to be 'English' and for her to 'fit in' I think that's a shame.

my friend's mum who was German used to do this when I was sitting there.
Then she would say hahaha you don't understand any language but english!
Actually she was wrong but I couldn't be bothered to tell her I could understand her.
Rude arrogant person.

I think it depends totally on context, if the comments she is making to her dc are related to the conversation she is having with you then she should be speaking the common language if it is for example her dc asking for a drink and her responding so something completely outside the conversation then it is fine to converse in her own language