To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

[jujujbel]

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

"it's the monoglot Brits who've never mastered another language who think it's rude"

Excuse me! I am a monoglot Brit and I couldn't care less.

In that case op dd should not go round there, op have friends dd round instead.

it's the monoglot Brits who've never mastered another language who think it's rude

yabvu. you seriously have an issue with a parent speaking to her child in her preferred language? I actually think you must be quite low in self esteem that a good friend speaking to her child in their own language upsets you.

Not really sure if it's U or not, but fascinating how few people (if any) have suggested using the fact of a bilingual friend as an easy way to pick up another language.

I wouldn't class myself as bilingual, but having a non-English father meant I was exposed to two languages at home (my DM insisted English was spoken in the home !) and am happy conversing in either (when I get the chance, which is rare ). Maybe that's why I find myself a little when it seems some people are so ... scared ? ... defensive ? about other tongues.

I did 6 years of French at school (no choice, it was a 70s experiment), along with 4 years Latin. And then have picked up smatterings of Spanish, German, Polish, Hindi, and Swahili. The irony is I hated languages at school ... if I had to have a regret, it's that I never did more, and that I didn't learn my Dads tongue fluently - although I can understand swearing very well .

Anyway, if I knew someone who could speak another language, I'd never stop pestering them - I'd love to learn the oddities and how it's different to English. I'm a great believer in the suggestion that learning any foreign language gives you a better appreciation of English. Even something as simple as the fact that French adjectives have to agree with the gender of the noun they describe. You need to know what an adjective in English is before you tackle that one .

Why is it important to learn to speak your parent's mother tongue(s)? A nice to have. maybe, but "important"?

Its much more important to speak the language of your own country.

No, it's not. Multilingualism is the international norm and confers cognitive advantages. Culturally it is massively important. It's incredibly insular to consider only majority languages as being important and bad for children's language and learning development.

wind up surely var123 ?

One does not exclude the other you know.

I think it's pretty important that my children be able to communicate with the other members of my family (their grandparents, uncles, aunts) as well as my friends.

She might not even have realized she has switched languages. I now live in another country and am completely fluent in the new language. Sometimes I talk to English friends and haven't even realized I have switched to my new language until I am met with blank stares. Or someone says "wrong language" and we laugh about it.
If it is normal for her to speak to her children in her own language she probably just switches automatically without being conscious of the change.

Plus totally agree with duplodon, there are other recognised advantages to being bilingual/multilingual.

I speak fluent French.
I still think it's rude.
You also teach social norms when you converse, not just language.

I don't know, var123? Because they want to be able to speak to their grandparents and cousins? Because they may want to move back to their other home country, as adults, or if the family moves back? Because accent and idiom are incredibly difficult to learn as an adult (my DH started learning English at age 12 and has lived in English speaking countries with an English speaking wife for 15 years, and can still be spotted as a foreigner as soon as he opens his mouth)?

var that's the stupidest fucking thing I have read on MN this week.

Congratulations.

Not important to speak your parent's mother tongue? Oh dear.

Op you are objecting to your friend speaking directly to her child in her mother tongue. Why is what she says even your business, even if it is a topic you were discussing as a group?

Families who try to raise a bilingual child but worry about being seen as rude by ignorant insecure people who can't cope with not understanding what another parent says when speaking directly to their child, fail. Where the parent stops speaking the mother tongue in public they end up with a child who, by mid primary age, often refuses to speak the minority language. Parentworried about offending nosey or insecure people leads to child worried about what others think and ashamed of their mother tongue. Those kids can end up with varying levels of ability in their mother tongue from just understanding a little bit, to understanding well but not sounding native when they speak. If you want a truly bilingual child all - all direct conversations between minority language parent and child need to be in the minority language.

It is nobody's business to tell a parent not to speak their own language to their own child - I am frankly stunned so many people are saying it is!

Facepalm var. obviosly you have never made a serious attempt to learn another language.

I grew up with bi and tri-lingual friends. The only words of German I know were from overhearing my BF and her DM chatting. Her DF still remembers us running around speaking a mixture of, in her case four, in my case three languages. When I was mentioned recently, this man is in his 80s now, he still remembered my stock phrase in Italian, which was VERY cheeky. His English didn't exist.

I speak good Italian, passable French and a few words of other languages. Being immersed in a language is the best way to learn it.

Long periods of speaking a language I didn't know might have bored me, but just people going about their day, switching languages, was really good for me to be part of.

I can't believe the precious way people are referring to bilingualism, as if it's some sort of medical condition that they're are having to face on a day to day basis. It's a choice that you make and it's not some kind of compulsion that you have to feed in a particular way or ......disaster occurs, a child is not bilingual and what? Nothing is what. If they want to learn a language enough themselves they will. It is rude to speak another language in the context you describe.

Think about it from the parent's, rather than the child's perspective for a second.

Would you be comfortable to raise your child in a language which wasn't your own? In which you weren't 100% proficient? To sing lullabies in that language, to play games in that language?

Do you even know the songs and childhood games in a second language?

Your child is upset, do you comfort them in a language which is not your own?

Of course you don't. I can't imagine raising my child using anything other than my mother tongue and I bet neither can anyone else.

That's completely ignoring the many and varied benefits to the child!!

Excuse me! I am a monoglot Brit and I couldn't care less

Well done MamaLazarou, you are on the side of the righteous

I can totally understand both of your views, I am foreign (European country) but didn't manage to make my kids bilingual which I do regret now but the circle of friends that I had when they were small who spoke the same language as me can only be classified as languagenazis, seriously it seemed to become the one and only focus of their lives to make their children as non-English as possible, even though most or all of the dads were British or English speaking. In the end I had to have a break as it got too much. It was gossiping on whose kid spoke the best, who you couldn't play with as the kids didn't speak XXXish good enough and so on. I am fully supportive of multilingualism but I value friendship more and especially as it sounds like the DD in OP is already fluent in the mother tongue it doesn't have to be practiced there and then in front of friends who doesn't understand...how often do you really have to speak to your DC when they are having a playdate???

i a child is not bilingual and what? Nothing is what.

Yes, not being able to converse with half your extended family is nothing to get worked up over

I understand the raising a bilingual child point, however it can be a horrible situation when suddenly you are not part of the conversation that seconds ago you were part of. I worked in a cafe where I was the only native Brit - regularly I would go whole shifts with no one speaking English. I also have a very mixed group of friends, half of whom will regularly switch to German and continue the conversation leaving half of us sitting without a clue what's going on - this would also happen if there was only one non German speaker. That's rude. It made it quite clear that my comfort was not as important, and that I was not deemed important enough to be included in conversation.

bamboostalks don't be so utterly fucking stupid.

Can your children converse with both sets of grandparents? All their cousins?

Why then do you think "nothing" happens to my child when he is deprived of the one method of communication through which he can maintain or even create a relationship between himself and his family.

Jesus is it tunnel visioned monoglot idiot day or something????

I am NOT going to be held responsible for another person's unwillingness or inability to learn a second language.

You can't understand the private conversation I'm having with my child? Then it's either hard cheese or learn another language, numbnuts.