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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

434 replies

jujujbel · 13/02/2015 12:23

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 13/02/2015 12:45

My dh is Italian, when in laws come to stay, they talk Italian right in front of me when we are in the room having a conversation. They speak fluent English by the way.

jamaisjedors · 13/02/2015 12:45

YABU. Have you any idea how hard it is to maintain the 2nd language in a totally English-speaking environment?

We live in France and I speak English to my kids, whoever is around. I really struggled with this at first, feeling rude or awkward, but now I feel wierd speaking with my DC in French and they never EVER speak to me in French either.

This is v. important to me as I know quite a few other "bilingual" children who actually refuse to speak English to their parents or have a very poor level IMO.

Noone here has ever thought it rude (or said to to my face anyway), they all like hearing another language and are keen for our kids to be friends etc. so that they "pick up" English.

The only time I have ever spoken to them in French is when they have friends round and I"m addressing the whole group of them, even then my DC reply to me in English.

OttiliaVonBCup · 13/02/2015 12:46

I don't think being bilingual means switching languages all the time. It means being able to converse equally well in both.

In fact most people find it hard to switch continually. That's what trained interpreters do.

And you can be true and faithful and what not to your traditions but give it a rest for an afternoon so as not to upset a friend or their mum.

ArcheryAnnie · 13/02/2015 12:47

jujujbel I came here to say YABU for not wanting people to speak their own language in their own home, but on reading your full post I have changed my mind. It was the analogy with whispering that made me understand how you feel.

I'm sorry it is causing a rift with your friend. Did you use that analogy with her? Because I think it explains it very well.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/02/2015 12:47

Yes I agree, op handled it wrongly. She should have addressed it with her friend first, not do it through her dd.

fattymcfatfat · 13/02/2015 12:47

I met a woman who spoke english, her own language (Russian) and her dh's language (italian) fluently. she spoke to her daughter in all three languages ..so she would say something to her in Russian, then repeat in Italian, then repeat in English! the daughter could speak all 3 by the time she was school age and understood that the three languages were used for different people, so English at school and friends, teachers etc, Italian to her dads family and Russian to her mums!

NeedABumChange · 13/02/2015 12:48

It is so rude if everyone can speak one language for some to start talking in another. Obvious exception if someone is actually struggling with the main language.

Notrevealingmyidentity · 13/02/2015 12:49

It is rude if the people can speak the language you all speak but choose not to.

I had a housemate that used to fogey and do it but she would always apologise ! And she also once had a conversation in x language then turned to me and said "what do you think ?"

Grin I had to remind her I had no idea what shed been saying.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/02/2015 12:49

When you hear your name when somebody is speaking in a different language. If it's about me, please speak so I can understand and defend myself if necessary.

AntiHop · 13/02/2015 12:50

Is your friend from a county where there has been war, conflict or oppression of minorities? This could explain why she's reacted in the way she did. If she's had experience of her community being attacked or marginalised, it might be affect how she feels about being told she can't speak that language.

Notrevealingmyidentity · 13/02/2015 12:50

jam

She can speak the language when OP isn't here. It's not difficult. OP is a friend not someone who is with this mum all day every day.

Notrevealingmyidentity · 13/02/2015 12:51

Sorry what I mean is. OP isn't asking her not to use the language. Just not use it when she's with them socially.

TheHomicidalPowerOfaTypo · 13/02/2015 12:52

I live in France and do my best to only speak in french in front of my french friends. The trouble is, because we speak entirely in English at home my children find if strange to ask for something in French when we're here. We're not intentionally cutting other people out but when certain things are habitually said in one language it's hard to use the other one.

Likewise when I'm in the UK I'll often give instructions to my children in French because, due to working in a french school, those instructions come out more easily in French.

Basically, what I think I'm trying to say is that it's often not a conscious decision to use one language or another. It's what is normal for that situation between the mother and child.

gamora · 13/02/2015 12:52

I think YAB massively unreasonable and surprised by the answers contrary.

I have quite a few friends who come from abroad, will be trying to raise their children bi- or tri-lingual yet are staying in the UK. Its a HUGE effort to ensure that happens. These friends are fluent in english, use english professionally and would never exclude anyone on purpose but the only way this will work is if they continue to speak the second language to their child.

Also, it is more comfortable. From what you've said, they're not talking about you, or continuing a conversation but not letting you hear bits. More like, you and your friend talking about what's on the news, her dd comes in and she breaks away to say 'don't forget to put on your coat' then comes back. Why would you need to understand that? If you thought she was talking about you or using the fact they have anohter language as code, I understand that, buy my sympathies are entirely with her on this one.

And I think if you really thought about what it would be like living abroad for twenty years, speaking in a second language all the time, makign the effort to integrate but at the same time wanting to feel comfortable with your children and pass on your culture to them only to be calld out on it by someone you consider a friend, I doubt you'd feel the same way in her shoes.

Schoolaroundthecorner · 13/02/2015 12:53

I live abroad in a country with a very varied mix of nationalities. It's also a country with three national languages. My son is learning one of them at school at present and my hope is that he will be bilingual when he is older, unlike his parents as we are currently struggling to learn the language he is picking up easily. As you can imagine I am therefore a big supporter of children being exposed to languages other than English and the evidence is there to support the idea that parents in bilingual families should speak to children almost exclusively in their native language especially when they are young.

I know you feel excluded but unless it is done excessively, in that they spend a great deal if time with you speaking the language you don't understand, I do think you could be more supportive. It often happens to me here but if it is just the occasional remark directed at the kids before switching back to English then I don't think they are being rude at all. They are trying to do something great for their kids and maintain the child's knowledge of the parents own language and culture.

Original poster
jujujbel · 13/02/2015 12:53

As regards my DD speaking up first - I am very proud of how she handled it and have told her so. Yes - I should have spoken earlier as it has made me uncomfortable for some time and I accept that one of my failings is often not speaking up for fear of offending. I have been very specific that the only context this bothers me in is the situation of a group discussion starting in English and then the language being switched. An example just the other day was where both girls came to us to ask if they could have a sleepover. We both agreed 'no' and explained why - too late in the day etc. the girls argued back and tried to persuade us, as kids do. Then friends SD switched to their language, obviously to try to persuade her mum and my friend and her DD had a discussion for a good few minutes on the subject. So it was a conversation we had all had that myself and my DD were then excluded from.

OP posts:
Shedding · 13/02/2015 12:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gamora · 13/02/2015 12:54

Also: people saying they should switch when you're there: a, that's un-natural, and b, that goes against everything that is recommended about raising children bilingual where the emphasis is on consistency - one parent, one language, all the time.

Shedding · 13/02/2015 12:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DamnBamboo · 13/02/2015 12:56

I think your friend is being rude.
I once dated a Thai man whose Thai friends would often break off and speak in their own language when I was there. Fortunately, he and one of his friends were quick to chastise them because of this.

BuildYourOwnSnowman · 13/02/2015 12:56

Gamora - I understand that she is talking about continuing a conversation in the second language

To those who only speak to your child in the other language - what would you do if there was a friend round for dinner? Would you have the dinner table conversation in the language the friend can understand or in the other language?

My understanding is that the friend is doing the latter.

SuperFlyHigh · 13/02/2015 12:57

Sunny - I've had French ex-colleagues speak about me in French (I have semi-direct French heritage) and complain why was I not speaking French (spoken amongst themselves) - it was because a) I didn't want to and b) we were in UK not France and also c) I didn't feel comfortable doing this.

My mum's DF and DGM used to argue in German and speak in French when my DM was a little girl (she was brought up by both of them).

A good friend of mine at college her DM and boyfriend's DGM etc (all Chinese) they'd speak to each other in Cantonese or Mandarin (I don't know which) but then their English was appalling otherwise and they would say 'Hello' 'How are you?' to me. I think it's different if you're the only English speaking person/child in a family where English isn't the native language. They would also socialise according to my friend exclusively with the Chinese/Vietnamese neighbourhood and work in those circles (Chinese/Vietnamese) so no need to speak English again. If they spoke to each other in Chinese etc in front of me I couldn't have cared less as their English wasn't good enough to speak it in front of me and often it was just them asking re 'have you done this etc' not about me!

I think in your case OP if it's the odd phrase/sentence and not a lengthy convo they speak in their language then YABU. if it's lengthy convos leaving out you/your DD then YANBU.

Shedding · 13/02/2015 12:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SuperFlyHigh · 13/02/2015 12:58

Damn - that's really common! When I socialised with my Chinese friends they'd often speak in Chinese (not about me as far as I knew!) and they'd get told off (actually by one of their Thai male friends!) sometimes for speaking in their own language and not English.

Phineyj · 13/02/2015 12:59

I think YANBU - my foreign colleagues do this frequently in work contexts and I find it jolly rude!