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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

434 replies

jujujbel · 13/02/2015 12:23

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

OP posts:
MrTumblesBavarianFanbase · 13/02/2015 13:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DamnBamboo · 13/02/2015 13:30

I do think the being entitled is often exersised aggressively and without consideration for others

This ^

KatelynB · 13/02/2015 13:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SuperFlyHigh · 13/02/2015 13:32

MissPenelope - actually I DO think that most parents of children with a non native language should be taught their non native language wherever possible.

This has been for a variety of reasons but most often exclusion (various people I know) who when socialising with their parents' families/visiting country of origin have been at a distinct disadvantage when not being able to converse.

Also, if they want to take it further (eg Greek lessons for my half brother/sisters) when eg 11 onwards) they can choose to opt out. But you have the basics if you're taught when young.

BuildYourOwnSnowman · 13/02/2015 13:33

Why do the bilingual persons feelings of discomfort overrule those feelings in the monolingual?

To be clear here - we are talking about speaking another language to the exclusion of the non speaker not just in the prescence of a non speaker.

kitchentableagain · 13/02/2015 13:35

How have you not learned a good bit of her language in 20 years of this anyway?

I am biaccentual rather than bilingual but I have bilingual friends, most of whom are German. We always joke about how happy my ling-suffering German teacher would be if she could hear me now, and celebrate in jest the day when the DC's linguistic skills in German surpass mine (eldest was about 2 when that happened, youngest was about 6).

Never mind who is BU over this issue - why are you NOT stealing free language classes in this friendship!?

TheHomicidalPowerOfaTypo · 13/02/2015 13:35

"Can we have a sleep over?"

"No"

"Pleeaase? But, but, but... We want to. Please mum, please?"

"I have said no. That's the end of it.its late and we're going out early tomorrow morning to see uncle Pete".

It doesn't matter a jot what language the last sentence is said in. It's not part of the conversation. It's the parent telling the kids to shut up and accept that no is no. It's not excluding people. Its a mother getting her point across to her children. For all you know she was telling her kids to stop being so rude as they were embarrassing her.

thegreylady · 13/02/2015 13:35

I understand. My ds has a Turkiish wife and when we visit, although they always speak English in any conversation including me, there are often times when only Turkish is spoken eg when non English speakers are present. I always feel awkward for not understanding although ddil will translate occasionally. I have no beef at all with any of this but am just saying I know how you feel. It is a pity if a friendship is lost over this. Why not ask your friend if she and her dc will teach your dd some of their language? In her home with her dc she will ineviatably slip into her first language sometimes.

SuperFlyHigh · 13/02/2015 13:35

Oh and my mother and her half sisters weren't taught fluent French/German by their DF (taught a bit but not much) not because he thought it would be a disadvantage but because DF spent more time down the pub and didn't have much time to teach his DC (who wanted to learn his native tongues).

their DF was also a language teacher at Berlitz so they were all baffled as to when younger he hadn't bothered teaching them French/German.

cleanandclothed · 13/02/2015 13:39

In this context, I think you are being unreasonable. The child started the non-English conversation. This is the same as a child asking one parent if they can do something, being told no, and asking the other parent. You had been asked, and said no, and the child was (cheekily, but this is what children do) trying it on and 'double checking' with her parent in her own language.

And then the mother responded in that language. I have plenty of bilingual friends and many prefer to discipline their child in the non-English language as it is less embarrasing all round. So probably, by replying, she was showing very firmly the child wasn't to try it on.

projecting · 13/02/2015 13:42

YABU

I speak to my child in my mother tongue and this isn't going to change when we're in mixed company.

It would be utterly weird to speak anything else with him.

Suck it up. It ain't about you.

DuelingFanjo · 13/02/2015 13:43

YABU - honestly you are.

Thumbwitch · 13/02/2015 13:48

I think it's on the rude side too.

I once went out with a French man, not for very long - he was part of a programme whereby he could work abroad rather than doing French National Service. He flat-shared with 3 other French men. When I went out with them in a group, he frequently spoke French with his friends - I can understand a fair bit, but am not conversational in French so couldn't join in - one of his own friends pulled him up on it and said he was being rude to me. He was, really.

OTOH, I have another friend who is trilingual, as is her brother - when he phones her and I am with her, her phone conversation will be in a mix of all 3 languages, which is fine - it's not a conversation that I am part of.

I think from your DD's point of view, if she is visiting their house and the mother and daughter communicate mainly in their own language, then it IS rude, yes, and exclusionary.

Another friend is not English, and she spoke to her children only in their native language before they went to school - but that was fine, they were too young to be part of any conversation, and I didn't need to know what she was saying to them. Once they become part of the conversational group though, I think they should stick to the common language of the group as a whole.

GlassOfPort · 13/02/2015 13:51

Another one who is trying to raise a bilingual child here.
I only speak Italian when interacting directly with my DS. Sometimes, when I am in the presence of others, I do switch to English.

I fully agree with those who said it sounds weird and my son must feel exactly the same, as on those occasions he always replies in Italian.

Neither of us wishes to be rude, but changing the language we usually speak to say something as trivial as "Get your coat" or "Be careful with your scooter" makes us feel as we are staging a performance...

If this a friendship you value, it would be a shame to loose it over something of so little consequence.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/02/2015 13:52

Projecting, it works both ways, both parties have to be polite, why should op dd suck it up!

Aeroflotgirl · 13/02/2015 13:54

When you have a guest, you want to make them feel welcome, if they feel excluded because the fami,y is speaking a different language to the guest child and as a result feeling left out like op dd has, that is not good. I would not have confronted friend, but dd would not be staying over if she did not want to.

Original poster
jujujbel · 13/02/2015 13:55

Thank you all - lots of food for thought. Again, to clarify - no issue with the language being spoken in our presence and I like to hear it (and know some words). Issue is when conversation that previously involved all of us or is about arrangements that we are making that impact us all, is switched to a language that not all of us can speak.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 13/02/2015 13:55

I would instead have friends dd over.

SorchaN · 13/02/2015 13:57

OP, if you want to know what she said, just ask her!

MamaLazarou · 13/02/2015 13:59

YABU! What a strange thing to be bothered by. I have a close friend who often breaks off mid-conversation to speak to her children in their mother tongue. My son spends a lot of time at her house and has picked up a little of the language there. We have another friend who speaks the same language and they often chat away in front of me. It's never occurred to me to be bothered by it! I don't mean to be rude but if it bothers you so much perhaps you should only befriend native English-speakers?

SolomanDaisy · 13/02/2015 13:59

YAB a bit U, this is a very common approach to raising bilingual children and may well be the best way to ensure that her DD has native level fluency. My DS is Dutch-English bilingual and my friend's child is Japanese-Dutch bilingual, we have an agreement to speak basic versions of each other's language in front of the children, to help them learn a bit. This has worked for my friend's older child who has a good passive understanding of English and a great accent. My DS now knows a bit of basic Japanese. You could help your daughter learn another language, but I think that isn't particularly valued in England.

GreatAuntDinah · 13/02/2015 13:59

YABU. It's called a MOTHER TONGUE for a reason, because there's a massive emotional bond invested in the language you speak to your children in, particularly if it's the minority langauge where you live. Speaking your second language to your own kids is really unnatural and forced.

As always on these threads, it's the monoglot Brits who've never mastered another language who think it's rude. All the YABUs come from people with experience of bilingualism. That should tell you something.

projecting · 13/02/2015 14:00

The OP and her DD should suck it up because its important that the friend raises her child to speak her mother tongue. This doesn't change dependant on the company they are with.

I don't think you can appreciate that if you have a bilingual child, speaking to hem in the "other" language is very odd and unnatural. Agreed it feels like a performance.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/02/2015 14:02

Projecting, it works both ways. It's not nice for a child to go to someone's house, feeling left out and excluded.

BauerTime · 13/02/2015 14:02

OP I think maybe you hadn't thought of it from your friends angle, much like I wouldn't have, through ignorance of not knowing what it's like to raise a bilingual child.

After reading this thread my eyes have been opened and I hope yours have too. Maybe you can use it to resolve things with your friend.