To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

[jujujbel]

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

Yabu. You are saying she speaks english to you and your dd. She is not excluding you or your dd. she is teachind her dd a language. That you strugle is a minor inconvenience that a friend can deal with i hope.

You're not excluded from the conversation, she's just talking to her kids? Would you have been hanging on every word if she was speaking to them in English? If you want to talk to the kids in English you can go ahead. YABU for acting excluded from a mother's conversations with her children and YABU for making your daughter confront her!

Do these families who keep strictly to one parent / one language never have a conversation in one language that includes all the family then? Seriously?

I have read the raising bilingual children book. It depends on the parents language ability. Say a couple are French and English and they both know the other languages. Then you are supposed to converse in mixed languages. Say mum speaks English, dad French in a single conversation.

If one parent doesn't know the others language, like in my case, obviously family conversation is in English. I will often tell DDs things in my language in front of DH. Things like wipe your nose, don't talk with food in mouth type of things (many posters have given examples of these). They aren't intended as part of the general conversation.

Thanks again for all of the replies and viewpoints. I will take it all on board. Much appreciated.

Also, how many times have people glared at, muttered to or used code to get across to their kids that they need to stop arguing and let it drop (in this instance nagging for a sleepover which has been refused)?

Being able to break into another language is just anger way of doing this.

I find it really hard at work when I have to get cross with a child and I can't get the words out in French. Having to do this in front of a French colleague is even harder. Doing it in front of a friend and their children is mortifying. Of course I'll use a language that gets my point across to the person it's intended for.

I think YABU/ Unless you don't trust your friend anyway, and feel she is speaking about you.

The thing is - when English isn't your 1st language and you are used to speaking to your DCs in your heritage language, then its what you do. Quite simply - you "forget" and do what you are used to. It happens - we are human. If my parents are round then even if my friends are here too then I'll call something across to my parents in our own language - I don't speak to my parents in English. My friends don't bat an eyelid, we still have our convo in English alongside.

Even if English is 2nd language and I speak it fluently, I STILL do what Im used to - Im in my own home, where I feel comfortable. & if Im at a friend's house and they do it I don't bat an eyelid because its not something my mind is on. I don't think you can put this woman on notice in her own home about this - you can try but it won't work. Even if she agreed then forgot, and spoke to her DC in their language then what would you do?

I don't understand why some people get so edgy and immediately assume they're being spoken about or must be privy to every conversation. & also why they think its simple switching from 1 language to the other all the time. Some days it isn't...there are loads of things in the mind. At home I speak to my DCs in our language too. We all speak English tho re. school, work etc but sorry, in my own home Im not always going to remember not to say something to them in the language we habitually speak. Im not being rude Im just doing what I do. I suppose if someone pulled me up about it at the actual time, Id switch. But not as a general rule.

YANBU
Rude.

I honestly don't understand this 'feeling excluded' thing, although in my experience people who feel excluded are usually people who can't speak any language other than English.

I often speak to my children in their dad's language in front of other people. I'm choosing to bring up my children bilingual, and I'll speak to them in their other language if I choose to. If someone wants to know what I said, I'll happily repeat it in another language. But then most of the people I know are people who can speak at least two languages and aren't paranoid about language switching.

Don't be hurt. She is at fault, not you.

Its considered extremely bad manners to conduct a conversation in front other people in a language they do not understand when there is another option.

Your friend is BVU. I suspect she would not like it if you started talking to your children in a broad dialect that she could not follow. It wouldn't matter whether you were talking about her or not. Your analogy to whispering is spot on.

She is raising her children bilingual; she is absolutely entitled to speak whatever language she prefers to her children in that context, as long as it is not part of any convo you were having with her.

And this is what gets my goat.

The entitled again.

Even if someone feels entitled to something that should not prevent then from having simple good manners.

I do think the being entitled is often exersised aggressively and without consideration for others.

I did manage to raise the DCs bilingually and I am fully fluent in four languages yet I never felt the need to offend someone while using them.

As a parent of bilingual children, I'm afraid I think you are being a bit unreasonable. I think you have taken offence at something that truly wasn't meant personally.

I always speak to my children in English. We have always lived by the "one parent one language" rule, which is generally seen as a good way to help bilingual children cope with the two languages they hear at home.

I can understand that it's not always nice to hear somebody speaking a language you don't understand, but it's really not about you or how you feel.

Where I live, bilingual and trilingual families are the norm. I have many friends who - along with their kids - speak languages I don't understand. I would never dream of telling them not to speak in the language that is natural for them, just as they wouldn't say that to me.

If you really think you need to know what has been said, you can always ask. "Sorry, I didn't catch what you were saying - my German/Korean/Kiswahili's not what it used to be" gives them a light-hearted opening to explain if they want to. If I were your friend I'd probably distance myself a bit too, as you would essentially have just told me that the way I interact - and need to interact - with my children isn't convenient for you.

That might sound a bit harsh, but you really should try and see it from your friend's point of view.

I think YABU, I live abroad and speak to my bilingual DD in English, even in front of non English speakers and no one bats an eyelid. In fact, they try to get their kids to listen in and try to learn something as multilingualism is valued here. It's not just English either, my Austrian friend has the same reaction when speaking to her kids in German.

Only in the Uk is there this utter defensiveness when hearing another language spoken. Same Austrian friend lived in the UK when her eldest was small and got a lot of cat's bum faces when she spoke to her in German. I have also been told off for speaking to my non English-speaking DP in his language to explain something as it made some totally random people in our group feel "uncomfortable" and "excluded". So by that logic I should exclude my DP instead?

In any case, I'm afraid I agree with your friend, my DD's requirement to learn my language well and in a grammatically correct manner trumps your need to understand me asking her if she needs a wee, a tissue, if she's done her homework or whatever. You know, most of the time we're not talking about you, it's usually something mind numbingly boring or even private. If you're that concerned learn the language!

funnily enough it tends to be the monolingual a who have an issue with this, other bilingual/multilingual families never seem to mind.

I have never caused offence to french friends by speaking to my kids in English in front of them. Most people love it. Most of my friends ask me to speak in English to their children even though they don't have a clue what I'm saying (I don't do this - I feel it's unfair to the kids).

When my children have friends round I might give the odd instruction to my children in English and then explain what I've said to the french kids but only because it is natural for me to speak to them in English.

If my French friends want to know what I've said they'll ask me. And I'll explain.

Just to jump at the OP's defence slightly, while it might be U to mind herself, I think that her daughter (who I assume is quite young) feeling upset by it is a slightly different matter if she is the only person present who doesn't speak x language and it might be reasonable to raise it.

But I think the onus here is on the parent, not the child to tackle it.

As a parent of bilingual children I think YABU. It feels very odd to speak to your kids in the language you're not used to using with them - I find it feels like I'm pretending I know them less well than I do.

My friend does this as she's raising her children to be bilingual, however she translates for us anyway. I can just about pick up the mist of most things she says and I enjoy practicing my knowledge of her language, however to exclude another person is just rude, there is a happy balance.

I speak three languages but still find it excluding if people talk in a language you don't understand if
A) they are having a conversation which you are not welcome to join because you don't speak the language. And you're the only non- language speaker round the table/in the room
B) a conversation started in a language you understand you take part in the conversation only to have the language change so you can't take part (which is what Bil and sil do)

It's the conversational equivalent of someone turning their back on you.

No problem with people talking to their child in another language or their spouse or whoever in any other situation. Also not a problem where their English isn't good enough to maintain a conversation in English (as with some of my in laws)

Your mother should have ideally taught you Armenian.

That is a bit bossy isn't it? There are many reason why people chose or don't chose to bring up their children bilingually. It is not really any one else's place to judge anothers decisions.

My DS is bilingual. He hears one language from us and another one from everyone else. We have had it drummed into us by his school, his health visitor and his 'mother language support teacher' that we should only ever speak to him in his mother language if we want to maintain it on an equal level.

YABU and a bit weird to have the hump about your friend speaking to her own child in her own language, and telling you daughter that they are rude and egging her on to make an issue of it with her friend.

I think Izlet and toomuch have it.

If you only speak one language you have NO IDEA what it's like to speak in an unnatural way to your children. The children don't like and the parents feel weird.

I actually think YABU. She's talking to her child and presumably views the conversation she is having with you as separate.
This sort of situation doesn't really bother me in the slightest.

To clarify again - no issue with friend speaking to her children in her own language and we have greatly benefited from the friendship by learning about different cultures and traditions. Issue is only where we have been involved in the discussion in English and it is then moved to another language.

Friend having the conversation in front of OP, she just switches halfway, as the OP said.
OP is part of it, and then suddenly, she's not.

Now if the friend and her DD were, say, in the hall and the OP was in a different room and wasn't taking part in the conversation and then the friend asked her DD 'Do you want your coat, darling', then that's different. Then it's OK to switch.