To say no actually she can't come!

[Everythingwillbeok]

My DD is lucky enough to live on a nice little street with two other girls of the same age who are also in her class.

Nice she has friends to play with at weekends ect.But for the last 3/4 months ect is been so hard not upsetting any of the girls or their mums. I'm getting a bit tired of always making sure nobody is left out.

In December I took one of the girls lets call her Olivia to the cinema to watch Paddington along with my DD.It was a bit of a treat and the other girl,lets call her Fern was going to see it that afternoon anyway with her cousin. So I offered to take Olivia as I knew she'd be on her own all day as her own mum doesn't do anything with them at weekends.( not meaning to sound like a cow) but by her own admission can't be arsed taking her kids anywhere as she'd rather chill in her PJs.

All good only Fern saw us leave and came running out saying are you playing out? Er no we are on our way out sorry love but they'll be around later. Ok she said and ran back home.

That night I got a text saying hope you enjoyed the film I thought I was really good pity we couldn't have all gone together as Fern was upset she only had her cousin for company.I replied oh right well I knew you'd made plans and I didn't want to interfere.

About 3 times since then my DD has called for each of them and been told they've gone to McDonalds/ the park/ to walk the dog together so she's come back home and I've said nevermind we were out when they left or perhaps they wanted to go alone. She hasn't batted an eyelid as sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Olivia goes to her dads every Sunday at 12:30 without fail. DP said last night seeing as its so dry and sunny lets take DD to the farm on Sunday we can get some eggs and she can see the animals ect, then go for a drink at the pub on the way back.

So I said DD could pick a friend .Olivia's at her dads on Sunday so she won't be on her own she'll have something to do so ill ask Fern if she's free.

Ok yeah fine. So it's arranged but I've had a text off Olivia's mum half an hour ago saying just picked Olivia up from school to go dentist and she's in the car crying as your DD and Fern were talking about going out on Sunday and she's overheard, she's kicking off in the car saying she's not going to her dads and I can't force her to go so would you mind if she tags along with you?

I'm gobsmacked...I feel like I can't say no but why is there constant pandering? I'd say no sorry love can't let your dad down its the only dad he sees you. We can go there next week.

There's room in the car but it's the expense of taking another one and also the fact she's not really been invited.

Sorry it's long didn't want to drip feed.

They are 9 by the way not toddlers.

Just feel a bit resentful we can never just go out without considering what these other two are up to and if we are going to offend anyone.

In RL, I am known for being direct. I would just tell them in front of their child how manipulate they are. I might also call the dad and tell him why he's missing out on his day.

The other mum is not my friend. I owe her no favours.

That's why.

Also, I spot people like that from miles away. And just don't form any relationship with them.

Olivia was due to go to her dad's today though, so she'd have been out of her mum's hair anyway, so must be more to it than that?

To be honest, if I was the OP and that mum stood in front of my door, I would have said "Well, you really want your daughter to go there! Sorry, change of plans, we have cancelled the outing, but would you mind taking them all if you are so keen

Hey Lumpen, how's your bs meter? Mines off the scale atm

How do people know what they are "known for"?

People like Olivia's mum are so vanishingly rare (taken to the degree described here, rather than just being a bit brass necked) that insisting it "wouldn't happen to you" is a bit odd - it doesn't happen to 99.99% of us, regardless of what we are known for/as...

I've come across several people who push their luck a bit (one neighbor who tried to use me as free child care for her 3 and 5 yo when I had my own 3 and 5 yo and had just gone on maternity leave with DC3) but not to the dramatic, theatrical level of the Olivia+Mum mother and daughter method actors.

I would just tell them in front of their child how manipulate they are. I might also call the dad and tell him why he's missing out on his day

PAH! Tried to hold it in but really, really couldn't. You win the thread Snow. You deserve applause for your aptitude in the art of chatting bollocks being 'direct'

It sounds as if Olivia has her mum would round her little finger.
Olivia kicks off in the car - so Mum texts and asks if Olivia can come too.
Text arrives saying , sorry but no.
Mum and Olivia turn up at OPs house and Olivia kicks off again.

Olivia has learnt that she can manipulate her mum and others. She knows exactly what to do to get her own way. I wouldn't be surprised if she plays Op's DD and Fern off against one another too.

I can understand how awful it was for OP and why she was effectively blackmailed into the situation. Three girls often seems to be a recipe for disaster. Remembers own childhood where there was a definite "Queen Bee" in a friendship group

Shame you couldn't have told the dad and then he could have joined you all - how would she have felt then. . . Left out in the cold while you all have a great time! If I were you I would do as someone suggested already and invite/include others for such invites exclude them both from now on because the parents are as bad as each ither and your DD will end up being the one left out comoletely. They deserve each ither and you and your DD deserve better friendships.

It wouldn't happen to most of us because this isn't sudden rudeness out of nowhere from a considerate parent who reciprocates outings.

There is an obvious escalation here and the OP doesn't have the backbone to say no, so the other parent just keeps pushing.

If that mother asked why I'm not taking her child along, I would answer... What do you mean, you have never taken mine on an outing of offered any money for yours when I have taken her.

The OP doesn't speak up, so the other mother just keeps pushing boundaries.

That's why many of us don't find ourselves in these situations. We don't let them escalate this far.

It's quite sad that so many people are aghast in disbelief at other people saying they would say no.

What on earth is so bad/hard about saying no? Some of you guys needs to get some structure and boundaries in your lives.

But if it was their child, in their school ground

I may have read it wrong (pretty sure I didn't) but I thought Olivia's mum came round to OP's house with her daughter, nothing to do with the playground. Nobody was being humiliated in front of their schoolfriends, just a manipulative mother playing on the OP's sense of decency.

You can call BS on me as much as you like but under those circumstances I would have politely said "no, I'm sorry - I've already told you twice that we can't take Olivia on this occasion".

Seeing as how the OP felt guilt-tripped into taking her I think she needs to be upfront with Olivia's mum about future plans so she isn't put in this position again.

I think when she came round you should have tried something to put the responsibility where it lay - with the other mother. Something along the lines of "Oh Olivia's mum, you really can't presume others can take your daughter, when they haven't asked. I'm afraid we have a full car. You'll really disappoint Olivia if you let her think she can do that." and then you can do your best sad face for Olivia and say "I am so sorry darling. Maybe your mummy can take everyone out next weekend instead?" Where would you like her to take you all?"

I doubt I would have thought it at the time as I picked my jaw up off the floor. But saying yes does not sound like the sort of response that is going to make your life easier in the long run.

I have been in this sort of situation twice. Each time what I've actually said is "I am so sorry, there's just no room." And then shared the child's disappointment but stuck to my guns, which is what I try to do with my own children when I disappoint them by saying no.

A year or so ago I probably would have been like the OP and given in but not now. I have gotten fed up of people not bringing up their kids properly and teaching them manners and good behaviour and teaching them that they can't always get their own way that now I won't stand for this kind of thing.

I will just say no.

It's not bitchy to be assertive. It's not wrong, it's not harsh, it's not mean. If, as some are saying, they would not be able to say no, I wouldn't take them to be superior. I'd take them to be lacking in an ability to be assertive. This isn't a positive in my book and personally, I can't abide it when people can't say what they mean and mean what they say. It can make for difficult, unbalanced relationships and instances, as has been described here. Beating around the bush is just so completely unecessary! It's not polite, it's ineffective, failed communication. It is perfectly possible to be both respectful and assertive

yy Amantes

Anyway, how did the day go OP?

< hoping Olivia trod in cow shit and walked it through her mother's carpet when she got home >

I'm a bloody pushover, so I'd have done exactly what you did, OP. But once the outing was done, you can be sure that's the last invitation I'd ever issue to Fern or Olivia. Fine for the girls to play out together, but as far as treats and outings go, I'd say their imposition has ruined it for all of the girls as you can't take one without the other barging in.

I actually think it's quite low, to give someone the impression that something's OK, then hop online to have a good bitch and moan about it.

When I (once) had to ask for a lift for one of my dc, I intentionally picked the most forthright mother in the playground because I knew, without any doubt, she'd say 'no' with no hard feelings, should she need to and that there'd be no residual bad feeling on either side (I respect assertive people). I'd far rather that, than someone saying 'yes', thereby leading me to think it's fine, then stabbing me in the back for their own ineptitude.

I realise that ops nemesis is a bulldozer but with that awareness, there's all the more reason to be firm and succinct.

Kindle where I am from, it's normal to be that direct. None of this polite thingy you guys seem to be doing. My mum openly snubs people who have angered her in the past.

I couldn't have said no either but not because I think it would be mean - I'm just not that assertive. But I'd be resentful and pre-empting it in future, trying to make sure it never happened again.

Snowbells where are you from?

I respect the direct also in these circumstances although just to be political I would have put it very very nicely so it would be very hard to take umbrage at the tone.

eg "I really can't take Olivia this time, I'm so sorry about that, I do think she's such a lovely child and it's fab how well they all get on, definitely another time but just not this time if you see what I mean, it's all sorted and I'm sure you'll understand about that, look forward to having Olivia round to ours soon, let's set up something for next weekend shall we? Ok got to dash, bye!!!"

So?........How was the day? who said what to who?

Hello everyone.

Thanks so much for all our replies and advice.Especially posters who've not called me a doormat and a mug and actually put themselves in my shoes...I have to see these women and children everyday, on my street and in the playground. I've lived in my house 12 years and the other two longer so they are not random people.Olivias mum also has another connection with me through family that I won't go into.

We went this morning at 11 both girls were here on time with a couple of pound spending money each (which they didn't need).

We actually had a lovely day despite the fog it was mild and the animals were lovely we had a J2O and some crisps in the pub on the way back.

Ferns mum walked us to the car when we left saying are you ok about taking all of them. I replied well its not exactly what Id planned but it was ok.

Olivia's mum just sent her round.

On the way I had a text off Ferns mum saying hope you don't think I'm speaking out of term but I'm guessing Olivia's invited herself along?

Her mum has told me she can't handle them having time on their own and hates them doing anything without her.

I replied on the way saying yeah that's pretty much it...(apparently her dad got a phonecall this morning saying she had a headache.) But they all get on and ill make sure there was nobody left out today but it wouldn't happen again as next time I'd be one step ahead. I don't like being backed into a corner and take someone who isn't invited out with me.

It cost a fair bit with two adults and three kids but I totally accept that's my fault.

Me DP and DD will be doing things on our own in future although like I said she may like to take friend over Easter if we go anywhere but ill ask my niece.

When we got back the girls played out for half an hour on the street and Olivia's mum sent a really gushing text saying thanks so much she's had a fantastic day ill take your DD out soon.

As for the poster (not being rude sorry cant remember name and trying to iron school uniforms for tomorrow) who said I was just coming online to have a bitch and a moan isn't that what AIBU is based on? Moaning about a situation that involves somebody else and asking who was in the wrong or have I missed something.

I'm glad you all had a nice day.

Glad you had a good time . Guess Olivia's mum has done this before. Vow to never let it happen again.