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AIBU?

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Original poster

Secret vasectomy

274 replies

30somethingm · 05/02/2015 15:39

A friend of mine has had a secret vasectomy while his partner is away visiting her family who have emigrated for retirement (she was gone a for just over 3 weeks). They are both 33 and when they got together said they would "probably not" have children. I think the fact that he has done this secretly suggests she has been leaning towards ambivalence or possibly even having them. However I think it is awful he has done this in secret.

WIBU for telling her? This is an old friend from childhood so am not keen on ruining our friendship - I just think he is being a dick and behaving as badly as people who secretly withdraw from using contraception. He has only just told me, and she returns next week.

OP posts:
FryOneFatManic · 08/02/2015 11:57

then sooner or later it will all come out

Depending on their ages, she needs to know now, not later. Later might be too late if she has now decided that children are something she wants.

While I would normally say that a secret should be kept, I would not keep a secret that had the potential to significantly alter the life of someone else.

This lady needs to know so she can decide whether this relationship, or children, is the most important thing to her. In other words an informed choice, that would not be available if this bloke was allowed to keep his secret.

This chap has the right to not have children. Equally, the lady also has the right to seek out a relationship that at least has the potential for children.

TheyLearnedFromBrian · 08/02/2015 12:36

OP, I'd say you're at the point now where you really can't in all conscience not tell her what's been going on anyway.

you know her partner has had a vasectomy and she doesn't.

not only that, you've sat in a pub with him and had an argument over it.

You can't say you're not involved - he's MADE you involved - and for him to expect you not to say anything to your friend, and be privy to this information and discussing it with her partner - abhorrent. As U as having the procedure without having the decency to inform her about it.

And I can't imagine, if you now know he had no intention of telling her, that you will be able, as a friend, to know this and keep his foul secret for him - colluding in deceiving her.

I hope to god she leaves him - whether she wants a baby or not. He seems to think he can move people around like chess pieces. Utterly sociopathic.

meandjulio · 08/02/2015 12:41

If you want someone to keep serious things confidential, you tell a therapist or a doctor. And even then, if there is a risk of harm, they may be required to tell.

If you tell a friend, then you tell a human being and you lose the right to keep total control over that information. I'd agree though that it would be sensible to ask why he's keeping it a secret - if it's a birthday surprise or something, fair enough.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/02/2015 12:48

Faire

I haven't said that its a good idea, I like several others have wanted to know why

"Look at the facts as they have been presented."

yes "facts" from a third party, I doubt that the OP knows all about the relationship, and the very first question I would be asking if a friend told me this would be "why keep it a secret, what is going on".

The only difference between what I and others are posting is that I am not so quick to call him a dick or coward or any of the other names because he may well have a valid reason for keeping this a secret.

Icimoi · 08/02/2015 12:56

I will say something like "sorry to hear what xxxxx did, blah blah blah, oh and I don't want to be involved anymore as it is unfair on you and me that I have had to get involved..."

I think that would be a disastrous way to deal with this: it makes it obvious to her that he told you before he told her. If you want to check on him, just try and bring the conversation round to having children and see what she says.

Fairenuff · 08/02/2015 13:02

The facts as presented are the only thing we have to go on. OP did want to ask him why he wanted to keep it a secret but he didn't give her the chance, he didn't want to discuss it, he just stormed off.

What possible valid reason could there be for keeping it secret? Can you think of one Boney, because I can't.

BarbarianMum · 08/02/2015 13:09

Having defended his right to have a vasectomy without discussing it with his partner earlier in the thread l agree subsequent updates put him firmly in the 'dick' category. He has a right to do it but she most certainly has a right to know and act accordingly.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/02/2015 13:16

"OP did want to ask him why he wanted to keep it a secret but he didn't give her the chance, he didn't want to discuss it, he just stormed off."

He stormed off as she was giving him ultimatums, if she had asked before that she may have gotten somewhere. So she hasn't actually asked him

As for valid reasons I posted a couple of probable reasons up thread. Whether they are considered valid is a matter of opinion.

plinkyplonks · 08/02/2015 13:19

30somethingm - He is a coward - only reason to tell you is so you'd tell her.

Personally, I would tell her - gives her a chance to find a real man to have kids with. Making decisions like this and then not telling your partner is disgusting and not the sign of a healthy relationship or a real man of any description.

Fairenuff · 08/02/2015 13:21

None of those were reasons for not telling her Boney, they were just reasons to not get pregnant.

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/02/2015 13:29

"My mate is a bit robotic at times and not always aware of how his actions or what he says might affect people."
Sadly, he seems all to aware of how this action will affect his partner Sad which is why he doesn't want her to know. Why else try to keep it secret from her? And the storming out - well, that just confirms that he knows how big a deal it will be to his partner, doesn't it?

Bottom line, he doesn't want children. Fine, his choice, the vasectomy ensures that he gets what he wants, as long as he doesn't change his mind in the future.

BUT - and it's a very big but - his partner has as much right to pursue what she wants. At 33, she wanted no children, so they were in synch. What does she want now? Next year? The year after? Maybe she still won't want children, but maybe she will. And if she doesn't know about the vasectomy and they talk about it, and Hmm agree Hmm to her coming off the pill, and she hopes, and every month her hopes are dashed, and every month he knows her hopes will always be dashed - fuck me, but that's really cruel Sad.

By having his vasectomy in secret, he's shifted the power balance in this relationship. She no longer has the option to choose to have children in this relationship, AND SHE DOESN'T KNOW THAT. Maybe she would be OK with that (in which case, why is he so determined to keep it from her?). Regardless, she needs to know. She needs to be able to choose between a guaranteed childless relationship with this man, or to choose to have children with someone else. He does not have the right to ROB her of her choice. He's made his, he now needs to ensure that she can make hers by telling her what he has done. Anything less is selfish, cruel and yes, immoral.

And OP - yes, if he didn't tell her within a week of her return, I would. __And I probably wouldn't want to be friends with him any more.--

Fairenuff · 08/02/2015 13:30

Just had a quick look back Boney and I think these are the reasons that you given for him not telling her:

given his stance it may be that he has been pressured in to TTC, or it may be that his partner has had several "scares" even though they have decided not to have kids and he doesn't trust her to take contraceptives, she could be controlling or he could be a dick, we don't know.

So, looking at them, if he has been pressured into ttc he is most definitely in the wrong for having a secret vasectomy, deceiving his partner into thinking he is ttc when he knows it's impossible and, ultimately, denying her the chance to have children with someone else.

If his partner has had several 'scares' and he doesn't trust her to take contraceptives then, again, he should tell her than he is 100% sure that he doesn't want children and that he has had a vasectomy so that there is zero chance of her getting pregnant. Otherwise he is again deceiving her and denying her the opportunity to have children.

She could be controlling but, again, she cannot control his choice of contraception and it's done now, so he should tell her. If she decides to leave him over it, so be it. He can't have it both ways and try to keep her with him by means of deceipt.

None of these are reasons to lie to her.

Jollyphonics · 08/02/2015 13:31

Fertility issues aside, surely no one can deny that it's immoral for him to allow his partner to continue taking a potentially health-damaging contraceptive pill when it's not needed?

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/02/2015 13:33

Plus, I'm not sure I cold ever trust a man who intended to keep this big a secret from me, when it could affect my life choices. It's so manipulative. Even if I was sure I didn't want children ever, I think I'd prefer to find someone else to not have children with.

Fairenuff · 08/02/2015 13:35

At 33, she wanted no children, so they were in synch

They are both 33 now Where, don't know how old they were when they met and agreed 'probably' no children.

Also, is he going to carry on using condoms to cover the deceit, or let her continue taking whatever precautions they were using?

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/02/2015 15:10

faire

by your reasoning he is already denying her the opportunity to get pregnant by saying that he doesn't want to have kids.

As she already knows his view on it and she wants to have kids should already has the option to leave and find someone else.

What this boils down to is that we do not know why he isn't telling her and without that information everything (as it is through a third party) really isn't worth much.

Fairenuff · 08/02/2015 16:04

by your reasoning he is already denying her the opportunity to get pregnant by saying that he doesn't want to have kids

Actually they have said that they 'probably' won't have kids so not ruled it out completely.

In any event, if she is in agreement then that's fine, he is not denying her anything because they have discussed it and agreed on contraception.

As she already knows his view on it and she wants to have kids should already has the option to leave and find someone else

This is the bit where the lie matters most. If you are right that she has changed her mind and wants to have kids, then why has he taken steps to make sure that cannot possibly happen and not told her about it?

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/02/2015 16:21

the "probably" comes from the OP so we don't know if it is probably, or never, or maybe.

"This is the bit where the lie matters most. If you are right that she has changed her mind and wants to have kids, then why has he taken steps to make sure that cannot possibly happen and not told her about it?"

It might be because she is not taking no for an answer and he doesn't want any "happy accidents". It may not answer why he isn't telling her about the vasectomy but it would explain why he has done it if she is not listening.

JenniferGovernment · 08/02/2015 16:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fairenuff · 08/02/2015 16:25

The whole thread is from the OP Boney, what else do you expect us to discuss?

Do you think he should keep it from her or tell her?

Or are you not prepared to be that decisive Grin

TattyDevine · 08/02/2015 16:29

Wow.

Wouldn't it be funny if his wife took a similar line, and went and got herself fertilised at a fertility clinic via a sperm donor, then presented it to him after the fact.

Wonder what he'd say then. Probably that she had gone behind his back, I would imagine!

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/02/2015 16:30

Boney nobody is disputing that not wanting kids is a valid reason for having a vasectomy.

If you can suggest any reason he would keep this a secret, other than to dupe his partner, I'm all ears.

JenniferGovernment · 08/02/2015 16:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FryOneFatManic · 08/02/2015 17:34

The reason for the vasectomy is actually irrelevant.

It has been done now so his partner needs to know, and has a right to know.

If her "probably" has turned into "yes, actually I do want kids", she needs the facts to make an informed decision.

The vasectomy implies to me that his "probably" was a lie, that he always meant "never" but didn't want to admit this in case she decided to leave the relationship.

Original poster
30somethingm · 08/02/2015 18:41

I never got the opportunity to ask WHY the secrecy properly, mainly because I just blurted out that he needs to tell her etc and was heavy. He stormed off pretty quickly. I also suspect that she has either changed her mind about children but I am none the wiser. Will broach the kids subject with her gently to test the water. I want to give him a chance to change his mind before telling her as he is an old friend. We go back to boy scouts!

OP posts: