Secret vasectomy

[30somethingm]

A friend of mine has had a secret vasectomy while his partner is away visiting her family who have emigrated for retirement (she was gone a for just over 3 weeks). They are both 33 and when they got together said they would "probably not" have children. I think the fact that he has done this secretly suggests she has been leaning towards ambivalence or possibly even having them. However I think it is awful he has done this in secret.

WIBU for telling her? This is an old friend from childhood so am not keen on ruining our friendship - I just think he is being a dick and behaving as badly as people who secretly withdraw from using contraception. He has only just told me, and she returns next week.

If we look at it from the angle of whether us women ask mens permission to take contraceptives - many of us don't and are not required to - Its personal choice!
Of course if its brought up in discussion in an open relationship then great. Clearly this guy has strong views against not having children but he should have been upfront from the beginning not sneaking around his partners back, that is more damaging I think, being cut completely out of a decision making process is infuriating.
I would personally tell him if HE doesnt tell her then YOU will - make that quite clear IMO.

What are the options of contraceptives for men though, the condom / femidom and pull out method work against the intimacy of a relationship.
I react badly with any form of hormonal pill, implant, injection so im left with the coil as an option. I chose to have that, but obviously that isnt a permanent solution and it can be removed at any time within 5 years.

I think the issue of the lack of contracptives for MEN is abysmal, being able to choose from either condoms or a vasectemy is a massive issue - why is more research not being done and options implemented so that men have more choices too.

oh just seen fairenuffs post - I too am not surprised they have separated, he should have seen that one coming.

Still - does anyone have any views on contraception for men???

So he was worried that she would sneakily stop taking the pill and trap him with a child, but he thought it was ok for him to sneakily trap her without a child if she had really wanted one.

I hope she stays well away from him and finds herself a partner who will respects her choices.

It sounds to me as though he doesn't trust her to take her pill. Maybe she's wobbling, and he senses it…..perhaps there have been some false alarms and he's feeling vulnerable.

We are always being told that if men don't want to be 'trapped' into fatherhood and don't want to support their own unplanned children then they should take responsibility for their own fertility….and he has. Good on him.

And let's not ignore the fact that many women in LTRs who are already using BC themselves do not actually want or appreciate their partners using 'belt and braces' condoms as back up anyway, and can often seem quite offended at the idea that someone else should be taking control of whether they can get PG or not.

I see no issue with what he has done whatsoever, PROVIDING he isn't be dishonest with her about his long term intentions. After all, it doesn't really matter what she might want, does it? He doesn't owe her anything except honesty about his position on having children. If he has continued to be absolutely clear on that then he has nothing to feel guilty about.

She's welcome to leave if the situation ceases to suit her. The fact that he now cannot get her PG shouldn't really need to come into it. If she chooses to stick around in the hope that she can trick him or manipulate him into becoming a father against his express wishes then more fool her.

On the other hand, if he knows or suspects she has changed her mind and he is planning to string her along for a few years with vague promises to 'think about it next year' then shame on him. That would be a despicable thing to do.

But based on what we know so far, he has done nothing wrong in my eyes. For both their sakes though, it would be better to be straight with her about what he's done. It doesn't bode well for the level of trust in the relationship that he should seek to keep this a long term secret on purpose.

Thanks for the update OP. I'm glad he's told her (good for you for putting pressure on) and think he made the right decision on both counts (vasectomy and the telling).

I know a man who did this. It's a lousy thing to do. Even if they had discussed not having DC, she would believe the door was still open.

Well 'discussing' it is loosely is one thing - coming to a firm understanding or agreement on it between you, or stating your position clearly and unequivocally from fairly early on in the relationship is another thing altogether.

In which case one partner has no right to think the 'door might still open.' They've been told, and they should respect that. Women and men who want children have a choice in that scenario, which is to leave and go elsewhere while there is still time to start again.

You do not, as a woman, have some god-given right to employ either trickery or intense emotional blackmail in order to force your partner to impregnate you, knowing it goes completely against his own wishes and feelings.

I'm not surprised. It was the going behind her back which was the deal breaker. Complete breakdown of trust and repect and without those there is no relationship as far as I am concerned.

Thanks for the update. Let us know if she ever forgives him.

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure he's been adamant about not having any children and have told his partner many times. I thought it was one of the main reasons they were together because they shared the same feelings on it. So there has been no stringing along.

The relationship broke down long before the secret vasectomy. He no longer trusts her. When trust is gone, you only have a shell of a relationship.

I agree mynew but what he should have done then was talk to her and then together they could have agreed the vasectomy or she could have walked away. IMO he has been a spineless selfish bastard because he didn't want to lose her and he chose to possibly trick her rather than talk about it.

But she doesn't have to agree it because it's his body. Granted it might have been nicer for him to tell her his intention prior to surgery but it was never up for discussion (because he doesn't want children - with her or anyone).

The issue was always about whether he told her what he'd done, which thankfully he has.

Ok fair enough but now he's lost her. She still doesn't want kids so that is not the issue. She may well have agreed to the vasectomy and the relationship could have remained good. By doing it sneakily, he's ruined it all for them both. So yes he's used his "right" but he's cut off his nose to spite his face.

I'm sorry but I'm having to disagree here - I really don't get why it's the awful betrayal of trust you all seem to think it is.

If he has ALWAYS been clear with her that he DOES NOT WANT CHILDREN EVER then why should he seek her advance approval to end his own fertility? She is not even married to him!

I agree it's weird to do this in secret but I'm sure he did it for his own protection and that is his right to do so. Perhaps he knew she'd put pressure on him to cancel it and she doesn't have the right to do that.

I'll bet the fact that she has now stormed off in a huff had rather more to do with her wanting to keep her pregnancy options open with him, than it had to do with any sense of disappointment that he chose not to tell her in advance as a matter of courtesy.

I am amazed that so many of you think that he has somehow removed a fundamental right to choice from her! He hasn't. Even if he never told her about the vasectomy, (while I agree that would be weird and unusual) so long as he continued to be clear that he did not want to father a child with her ever she would have absolutely no grounds to complain even if she found out about it ten years later!

It may be an odd thing to do, but it's hardly wicked and dishonest, providing he wasn't deliberately allowing her to have false hope as a way of keeping her in the relationship.

I wonder how many of you would so openly and harshly judge a woman who did this, after she'd made it crystal clear to her partner from the beginning that she did not want a child under any circumstances?

I'll bet there wouldn't be even one.

and then together they could have agreed the vasectomy or she could have walked away. IMO he has been a spineless selfish bastard because he didn't want to lose her and he chose to possibly trick her rather than talk about it.

They didn't need to 'agree' to the vasectomy together. It's not a decision she has a right to demand any part of, or have any influence over. He has been clear with her from the beginning, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

If he really felt she was likely to try to get PG by 'accident' then he must have known that the relationship was ultimately doomed to failure anyway, because they have ended up wanting different things from life. Maybe they were going to have that discussion at some point soon, but at least he's taken steps to protect himself from any 'accident' while the relationship is in its death throes.

I'm not sure how you can 'trick' someone into staying with you, so long as you've made it quite clear you'll never agree to actively try for a child. Whether you are still fertile or not is completely beside the point.

You did the right thing. If he really believed she would never want children he would have told her he was having it done. For him to act like she was the one who was going to lie (when he is the deceitful one) really sleazy.

But also to let her take a pill that has known health risk every day for no reason.

If my DH went and spent a huge amount of money on something without telling me, that is his "right" as technically he has earnt it. That too, would be a deal breaker for me. Fair enough if he told me beforehand, even if I disagreed, but to just go and spend it without discussing it - No. Because in a trusting, respectful relationship, we share major decisions that affect both of us. A vasectomy is a major decision that affects two people. He should at least have had the courtesy to tell her beforehand.

There is nothing in the OP to suggest that they had pooled finances. She is his partner, not his wife.

It only affects her life if she was hoping to trick him into or otherwise change his mind about fatherhood, not otherwise. I'm not sure one owes ones partners an ongoing dialogue about fertility, does one? I never even discussed the possibility of children with my boyfriends - yes I wanted them one day but not with them. With dh yes of course- we'd agreed to spend the rest of our lives together.

Barbarian its not about whether it affects her or not in real terms, but the fact that he lied to her. He has made it clear by his actions that he doesnt trust her not to lie to him, thats why she reacted as she did. I agree that him dealing with this issue is a good thing, he doesnt wants kids so he has made sure he cant have them. But if she agrees to no kids then why did he need to lie about it? If he suspected she was changing her mind then he should have talked to her about and restated his position and informed her that he was getting the op, he didnt.

The fact that its a vasectomy is irrelevant really, its the lying and the lack of trust he has in her that has caused such damage.

Agree. In a good relationship he would have told her he was getting a vasectomy when he went to his GP. Not doing so was cowardly and a sign of a poor relationship. Yes she might have been unhappy about it but if she was unhappy because she maybe wanted children then the relationship was over anyway.
I agree his money is his as they aren't married, they may not even be living together and he doesn't need to get her permission to have a vasectomy. In a good relationship they would have discussed this though.

I was talking about the money as an analogy. There is nothing in the op about their finances. As Bogey said, the fact it is a vasectomy is irrelevant. It is the principle behind it.

My ex had a vasectomy while we were together. We had discussed children and neither wanted them (same as this couple. The OP has said nothing to suggest the woman is wavering or changed her mind). One day he turned to me and said he was going to the doctor to discuss a vasectomy as then we wouldn't have to worry about contraception/pregnancy any more. I was very pleased with this, 100% supportive, and looked after him after the op.

this is how normal men do this.

I was thrilled to be free of the worry of pregnancy.

Had he sneaked off behind my back because he was worried I might change my mind in future, and he was intending to not ever tell me, then I would have been devastated at the lack of normal behaviour, normal communication and trust. That would have been the end of the relationship. Even though I was 100% pleased about the vasectomy. It's just so sneaky and distrustful and peculiar to do it the way the OPs friend did.

Barbarian its not about whether it affects her or not in real terms, but the fact that he lied to her. He has made it clear by his actions that he doesnt trust her not to lie to him, thats why she reacted as she did.

Oh, so the principle she has a right to be upset about, is it? Well sod that.

so let's say he trusted her 100% and she had a genuine BC failure and she refused to abort, (and we hear about this happening OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN) he'd be right up shit creek without a paddle, wouldn't he?

He trusted her, she didn't trick him on purpose, all good, except he's still going to be a father and he doesn't want to be.

Why the hell should he be expected to put his fate in the hands of someone else entirely, just so she can feel all warm and fuzzy about how much he trusts her not to have a BC failure, genuine or otherwise?

How many of us would be prepared to put all our trust in a man to take care of BC if we knew they had the legal right to determine whether any accidental pregnancy was aborted or not? No…I thought not.

Having trust in a relationship is all very well, but as a form of birth control it's pretty overrated.

Well done for completely missing the point.

No one has said that he shouldnt have had the vasectomy, in fact if you are quoting me you should also have quoted where I said that it was a good thing that he took charge of his fertility. The issue is that he didnt discuss this course of action with his life partner when there appears to be no real reason for him not to. If she still doesnt want children then there would be no problem, in fact she would probably be grateful to not have to continue on the pill. If she is changing her mind then it would have given him a chance to restate his feelings and confirm that if she does now want kids, it wont be with him because he is getting a vasectomy.

Its not a principle, his actions show that he doesnt trust her and that would be a dealbreaker for most relationships.

Its not a principle, his actions show that he doesnt trust her and that would be a dealbreaker for most relationships.

Exactly.

Also maybe his partner is at '99% doesn't want kids' but knows she may one day change her mind. It's fine for her to say "well, I do want to stay because I'm not that fussed about children", but it's also fine for her to say, "I'd rather leave my options open and I thought it was something we could revisit later". And then she can leave the relationship, or at least have it in the back of her head that if she is starting to feel differently she should leave.

I think his body his choice but I would be telling him to tell her himself.