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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to want to go boo hoo hahaha when men say they feel excluded by the the term "feminist"

368 replies

GoddessWhoWalksEarthAsWoman · 28/01/2015 23:39

Just wondering if anyone else thinks like me...Go.

OP posts:
TiggyD · 30/01/2015 18:12

I can't remember the last time

He had no proof that he could show to anybody. It would have just been my word against his about consent, with no proof either way.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 30/01/2015 18:14

I thought TiggyD was a man!

TiggyD · 30/01/2015 18:15

I am a man. Men can other men you know.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 30/01/2015 18:19

Sorry, I was heteronormative for a moment there. I realised that just after I posted it.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 30/01/2015 18:21

I know you like to gently wind up the feminists though Wink

FloraFox · 30/01/2015 18:22

It would have just been my word against his about consent, with no proof either way.

What do you think are the consequences of this very common state of affairs?

TiggyD · 30/01/2015 18:30

In the past the benefit of the doubt going to the one accused of rape and nothing happening. With the new rules probably the same. The "men must prove consent" seems to be in all the headlines but not actually in the stories in the papers.

FuckOffGroundhog · 30/01/2015 18:31

I've been having sex for quite a long time now. I've managed to not accuse anyone falsely of raping me. It's actually quite easy to avoid.

In fact going through a rape kit and having to justify all my actions to a stranger and then go through a trial would probably put me off should I one day decide to fake it.

AcquiredTaste · 30/01/2015 18:31

Groundhog I do have a lot of trouble deciphering what are reliable sources so i dont look at statistic numbers. I think that women have been seen as delicate and fragile people for so long that that could have influenced how things are seen.
I just dont like that as some men hurt women are taught to be wary of them. I have been raped by a male but i dont view them all as potential rapists. same as I have experienced violence and physical aggression from females but i dont think they are all aggressors. I just dont like when people say men are violent/potential rapists. women can sexually/physically assault men or other women so why only refer to men as being possible threats?

FuckOffGroundhog · 30/01/2015 18:37

All my statistics are realiable. You can spend about 10 seconds googling them if you are unsure. They come from the government. Unlike your request to google videos of men being attacked which are not actual statistics.

Please google them. Rather than spend ages here ranting about something you are obviously very uniformed about. Please google them.

You aren't afraid of being raped by all men because you haven;t been told since birth all the ways in which you are supposed to avoid rape whilst simultaneously being told than women bring it on themselves and men are all good guys...

FloraFox · 30/01/2015 18:39

In the past the benefit of the doubt going to the one accused of rape and nothing happening.

Not so. The jury hears both sides and can make a decision that the victim's evidence is sufficient proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That has not changed.

That's why we have juries, they listen to the evidence and make a determination based on the judge's directions. It's why an appeal court won't overturn a jury decision unless the judge made a mistake in allowing evidence or giving instructions to the jury (and other v. narrow circumstances).

Burke1 · 30/01/2015 18:46

SabrinaMulhollandJjones you asked whether I agreed with you that Not men are rapists, but all rapists are men. While female rapists are rare, they definitely do exist, and it is therefore incorrect to say that "all rapists are men".

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-31150/18-year-old-woman-convicted-rape.html

www.theguardian.com/world/2005/apr/28/2

You wanted me to consider your statement and I did, my conclusion is that it is wrong and that a accurate statement would be most rapists are men.

AcquiredTaste · 30/01/2015 18:49

Groundhog i will google the statistics but iyou are wrong about why i am not afraid of all men i have had to listen to lectures about appropriate clothes. Not being out after dark when i was growing up. Stranger danger talks as a child ( always men being mentioned).

shaska · 30/01/2015 18:50

Acquired I agree that I don't like that women are taught to be wary of men. However, I also think that in the current climate it's something that needs to happen - because by far the biggest risk to a woman, in terms of something violent happening to her, is that it will be a man who does it.

Obviously, we teach girls AND boys to be wary of other things too. Strangers in general, for children, and we teach them to read situations for threats, which can come in all forms.

However, when we talk about 'threat' from men, in conversations like this one it's not just about a life-changing violent event. It's about everyday stuff - the casual behaviours of many many men towards woman that subtly reinforce the message of 'you, as a woman, are right to be wary about men'. And even media messages too. Messages that say 'as a woman, your sexuality is the property of men, if they want it.'

I would love to say 'I will stop seeing men as a possible threat'. And obviously, I don't see all men as immediately and frighteningly threatening. But until I stop getting my wariness reinforced I don't see how I can write it off.

And yes, this is just my personal experience. But honestly, ask any woman. They will say pretty much the same thing, except in an awful lot of cases they'll have much more hard and damaging evidence of men hurting them. I'm a lucky one.

AcquiredTaste · 30/01/2015 18:50

Also i am not ranting and i apologise if that is how it is coming across.

RufusTheReindeer · 30/01/2015 18:51

burke

I'm missing how the first one is rape?

ThereIsACarInTheKitchen · 30/01/2015 18:53

Burke1 I'm pretty sure that under UK law only men can be rapists. I don't think it's classed as rape if it's a woman doing it.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong though.

AcquiredTaste · 30/01/2015 18:53

Ask any woman? Ummm I am a woman ( although admittedly quite a naive/gullible one)

Blistory · 30/01/2015 18:56

I'm sorry that you were raped, Acquired.

I'm equally sorry that women are taught by our rape culture that rape is something that they bring upon themselves. I suspect that men aren't taught that and that this alone influences how men perceive the risk of rape, both to themselves and women.

I am interested in why you seem to think that the small number of women who assault is of equal importance to the huge number of men who assault. It's the disproportionality that is relevant. It's the disproportionality that makes women dismiss the views of men who use the argument that women do it too to justify why feminism is a bad thing. Instead of being pleased that people are speaking up for those who suffer the greater harm, you would like us to focus instead on men who suffer less harm proportionally ? There's an illogicality there, is there not ?

shaska · 30/01/2015 18:58

Acquired ha sorry! Well, I don't know - in my experience, it's pretty universal, though I don't want to belittle your experience at all. And I don't think you're ranting either.

I'm sure you're not naive or gullible. I guess I'm just surprised as I honestly don't think I've come across a woman before who wasn't familiar with run-of-the-mill 'threat' stuff, or felt that women presented the bigger worry.

ThereIsACarInTheKitchen · 30/01/2015 18:59

Also Burke1 I've just had a look at those articles properly. In the first one it wasn't actually the woman who raped her, it was the teenage boys who raped her. She was one of the ones on the sidelines cheering them on.

Burke1 · 30/01/2015 19:01

ThereIsACarInTheKitchen you are correct, women who have sex with another person who has not given or refused consent, it is classed as sexual assault. Despite this oddity in the legislation, I feel that anyone who forces another person to have sex without their consent is a rapist. Do you agree with that?

RufusTheReindeer · 30/01/2015 19:01

Exactly there

I am curious to find out why burke thinks the first one is rape

I think he may just have read the headline

robin4 · 30/01/2015 19:02

But what do you say to your teenage son who feels unfairly judged by some feminists? Some of who feel it's ok to put men down just cause they are men, assuming males will act and think in a certain way

AcquiredTaste · 30/01/2015 19:02

From what i have seen (in rl not internet) mosr aggression comes from women. I have only met 1 male that has caused harm. I have seen a woman assault another woman and the case never even got to court so it would not be included in statistics the reason it never went to court? She couldnt have done that much damage apparently despit it being witnessed. It is my experiences. And its not just one area i have moved halfway across the country and i still see it here. Women being aggressive and men a voice of reason.

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