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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to want to go boo hoo hahaha when men say they feel excluded by the the term "feminist"

368 replies

GoddessWhoWalksEarthAsWoman · 28/01/2015 23:39

Just wondering if anyone else thinks like me...Go.

OP posts:
PetulaGordino · 30/01/2015 13:52

thank goodness you explained it all to me before it was too late frank

AnnieLobeseder · 30/01/2015 13:52

Petula, perhaps you could repeat your very succinct but spot-on above comment for frank, here?

AnnieLobeseder · 30/01/2015 13:55

Lewis' Law is certainly getting a workout today, isn't it?

shaska · 30/01/2015 13:57

"To pursue without it seems accountability all the freedoms men have allegedly enjoyed.."

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 30/01/2015 13:59

Thanks Frank - how silly of us not to realise that all our problems ended with the invention of the pill.

shaska · 30/01/2015 13:59

Oh i SEE now. It's that there's meant to be a comma after without and seems.

You'd think someone so found of full stops and speech marks wouldn't stint on a couple of commas.

shaska · 30/01/2015 14:00

fuck. fond of

BreakingDad77 · 30/01/2015 14:09

I would agree petula
"Women are taught to be conciliatory, to make allowances for men, not to get in their way, in order to protect themselves from the potential violence of men"

A scan of the relationships board will give you countless examples of women putting up with crap that wouldn't be if the roles were reversed.

Miggsie unfortunately something needs to be done to stop men thinking they are 'romancing' when they are actually just harassing.

PetulaGordino · 30/01/2015 14:10

isn't it annie? all these men proving how desperately feminism is needed. and they don't even know it

PetulaGordino · 30/01/2015 14:11

sorry BD77 - that wasn't directed at you, but i suspect you're sensible enough to realise that

BreakingDad77 · 30/01/2015 14:29

Don't worry Petula I didn't think it was Smile

I'm pretty Hmm at people trying to counter argue about female on male sexual assault. A man's more likely to be sexually assaulted by another man and that's still very very rare.

I sometimes think abuse/sexual assault etc is an elephant in the room and that its occurring way more than we think.

AnnieLobeseder · 30/01/2015 14:42

Hmmm, you think it, BD77, women know it. Sad

BreakingDad77 · 30/01/2015 14:52

I meant among men Annie

Most of my exes told me that they had had at least one bad sexual assault through their lives and general harassment when they went out to clubs/pubs and all have had some sort of pervy boss.

BeCool · 30/01/2015 14:54

the last time I shut down an unwanted "proposition" if that is what you can call it,, I was being followed by a man out of the tube station late at night, giving him no encouragement or even looking at him at all, walking quickly with my body turned away from him, until he got right in my face, plastered on a sick smile and a "hey baby how about it". I. Could. Smell. His. Breath. Right in my face/space.

Leaving aside the fact that no woman ever is going to respond favorably to this, when I responded loudly, in the hope that others on the street would hear and pay some attention, and very clearly "Stop following me I do not want to talk to you", his smile disappeared, he looked very angry and I thought he was going to hit me. Instead he "just" started cursing me loudly for "leading him on" and spat at my feet.

Does this kind of thing routinely happen to men? Do you need to prepare yourself for this kind of encounter every time you dare to venture out alone (because this kind of thing never happens when I am with another person)?

Why/how does a person get to adulthood thinking it is OK to do this shit?

Burke1 · 30/01/2015 15:02

SabrinaMulhollandJjones I apologize to you and others if it has appeared that way but I am not trying to goad anyone. I agree with part of what you are saying but I also beg to differ with other bits

First let me say what I agree with. I agree with you that in a carriage of one man and one woman it's statistically more likely the man would attack the woman rather than other way around.

The part that I disagree with you is where those statistics are then used to generalize, to say "I'm wary of all men because of these statistics showing they are more likely to attack me than a woman". I fear that this (and please tell me if you disagree) attributes the blame for the rape to a specific cause such as "he is a man", and takes the blame and focus away from the fact that the offender chose to rape. I don't want to be in a position where rapists can diminish some of the responsibility for their actions by pinning it on the fact that they are a man and "rapists are men".

Once again I apologize if I have appeared to be goading it was not my intention at all. I can't promise to agree with what you say, but I can promise however that any reply (whether I am agreeing with you or challenging you on a point) will be respectful. Thanks

Suzannewithaplan · 30/01/2015 15:04

Does this kind of thing routinely happen to men?

even if men do encounter unwelcome advances from women they are highly unlikely to feel threatened or intimidated by said women.
When is a man likely to be in a situation that is even remotely analogous to the one described by BeCool?

PetulaGordino · 30/01/2015 15:10

actually, naming gendered violence as such would go a long way to properly examining the problem

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 30/01/2015 15:12

Don't apologise to me, Burke - it is not necessary or welcome.

I would just like you to read Schrodingers Rapist and give it some thought - as if you gained even an iota of insight into this, you would understand what we are all posting about.

I would also like you to consider this: Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men.

Would you say this is a true statement? I would.

FuckOffGroundhog · 30/01/2015 15:48

Hey Burke if you knew had a 20% chance of getting cancer, would you be shit scared of getting cancer? Because that's mine and my daughter's chance of being raped. SO fuck the fuck off.

JassyRadlett · 30/01/2015 15:48

JassyRadlett you are describing something that is reasonable except for that you seem to only be applying it to men, unless you'd move carriages if it's just you and another woman, but from your post it didn't seem you would. Of course if I got this part wrong correct me.

Again, it's about keeping myself safe. I am much, much more likely to be attacked by a man than by a woman. I am vastly more likely to be killed by a man than by a woman. Men, as a group, present a far greater risk to me than women. How do you not get that?

Statistics are real. Each one is a real woman. Cumulatively, they shows why women have more to fear from men than from other women.

Similarly, I take more caution around dogs I don't know than around cats I don't know, because the risk of a negative outcome is greater with the dogs. I prefer dogs to cats, but that doesn't alert the fact I'm more likely to be killed by one.

FuckOffGroundhog · 30/01/2015 15:51

Do you think it's that likely that it's a very tiny minority of men that are doing 20% of sexual assaults. Nope.

85,000 sexual assaults every year. Fuck you if you don't think that's worth being scared of.

FreudiansSlipper · 30/01/2015 16:00

I do not know one woman who has not had unwanted sexual remarks made to her, vast majority have been sexually assaulted at some point and many have been raped

this is not the same for men and many thankfully many are giving a lot more thought to how what was once seen being maybe a little too forward and flirtatious can actually feel demeaning for a woman, how a passing remark though funny when between your friends can make a women uncomfortable and feel threatened

sadly burke you do not want to acknowledge this

trufflesnout · 30/01/2015 16:13

Burke I wasn't really expecting you to reply tbh, but it looks like what I said went right over your head. There are a lot of eloquent people on this thread who have also failed to get the point into your skull, so I'll just leave my piece there.

I think that the divide between the sexes is too great. You don't want to understand, so you won't.

Can I just ask that you please stop using the word 'gender' in the way that you are. Gender is fluid and no longer refers to the two sexes, so when you say things like 'differences between the two genders' (apart from looking incredibly dated and out of touch), it simply doesn't make sense.

BreakingDad77 · 30/01/2015 16:16

The Hidden Marks studies at universities are pretty thought provoking and give you a feel for the under-reporting that must be going on.

This under-reporting I think can give men the false impression "it doesn't happen much" or maybe "its just a few men doing these things".

AcquiredTaste · 30/01/2015 16:23

I have lurked, i have read and tried to learn. What I have seen is a number of people who point blank refuse to admit that women can be dangerous, that men can be assaulted and that men can be very wary of women and their view of men. As for the rape victims that are ignored then yes they are there and it is horrible that their rapists are not bought to justice but there are also women that lie about being raped and destroy men lives. Google domestic violence social experiments and you will see that when a man abuses a woman people always intervene but when a women abuses a man no one helps. The sad reality the women know that men are ridiculed if a woman abuses them and so will stay quiet. And no they cant defend them selves with their superior strength because they know they will be villified for raising their hand to a woman even though it was defence.

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