to expect nursery to change my 14mo before I pick her up

[CrazyRainbowLady]

She's in cloth nappies. They have a rule that they change nappies every 3 hours, her changes are usually at 10.30 and 1.30 according to the communications book.
She gets picked up at 4 and I usually run errands or pick up my older dcs from after school clubs etc.
I've asked them several times to please change her before I pick her up as we keep getting leaks from her nappies after pick up, but it rarely happens.
AIBU?

That leap of faith is well worth it in my opinion. My son was happy to go, my son was happy when I collected him... as a mother I knew he was well cared for. He is a wonderful teen now and I know I have her to thank for helping me in this.

There is now way I could say that about a nursery.

A childminder to me anyway, was the best thing I could have ever done for him when I had to work, it was a home away from a home.

Actually CrazyRainbowLady I've thought about it and whether it is fee paying or whatever I think you are well within your rights to ask for her nappy to be changed before you pick up. If it is tea time or whatever at 4.00 it may need to be a bit earlier but it's not unreasonable whether you pay or not because the staff will be expecting to change all nappies at half four so your dd's would just be a bit earlier.

no way of course.

A nursery for a little one before the age of 3 is not a "natural" environment, its clinical and far too structured in a bad way. How awful is a bottom change from someone in gloves and an apron for god sake.

My dd's nursery was brilliant. She was very happy there and I was too.

Apparently its someone elses job in the morning too when handed over. I even have many amounts of children coming into my nursery with poo stuck to their poor little bottoms.

They are quite often the parents that bang on about nappy changes

If the poor wee things have negligent parents, surely that is all the more reason to look after them properly while they are in your care.

You don't sound like you are in the right job tinks. I wouldn't want someone with your attitude to look after my children, either in a nursery or as a cm.

Tinks, my assignment was written as part of a foundation degree while I was working one day a week as a senior practitioner in a baby room and three days a week as a childminder.

It couldn't have been more to do with practice within early years settings.

Making nappy changes positive experiences which support children's development isn't an unrealistic expectation. It doesn't take more time to get it right. It just takes understanding, motivation and a desire to engage with children on more than a superficial level. Parents are not the only people who can build positive relationships with babies.

It is sad and quite shocking to hear you talk in this way. I know all settings don't offer high quality childcare. I have seen some children treated badly myself and listen to practitioners being vile about parents but I never expected to come across a practitioner defending poor practice so vehemently or so proudly

The problem does seem to be that the creche isn't used to dealing with cloth nappies.

In my experience, cloth nappies need to be changed as soon as they get wet. Three hours may be fine for a disposable, but that's too long for a cloth nappy if it is wet.

This is why I sent my children to creche with disposables and used the cloths at home.

It's perfectly reasonable to ask to change the nappy yourself when you pick her up, I don't get why this is a problem.

Your nursery sounds awful tinks. Nursery was a very positive experience for my dds. Dd2 still waves at her nursery 3 years on and we still have nursery staff come to babysit - both girls love them very much. Always felt they were engaged with parents and would accommodate needs where possible. Lots of open evenings and events and opportunities to talk with staff and managers. Whenever I picked up there were always babies and children being cuddled and whenever I saw nappy changes the girls were always singing songs and making eye contact.

Ridiculous to say you have to be a mum to look after children.

I think there are good and bad nurseries to be honest.

yanbu.

they can't just change nappies every 3 hours because they poo inbetween. dd's nursery would have happily done this.

although at people sending children in in night nappies. That's awful.

although at people sending children in in night nappies. That's awful.

That's the thing. Some parents are lazy. Some parents neglect their children. Some are simply not capable for meeting their children's needs. Most are not like that.

As an early years practitioner, you have to work with that.

Children don't come as discrete little packages. Each child is part of a family, has their own enduring primary carers and their own family culture. If you don't build some sort of relationship with their carers and see some value in their family life and background, you can never really know or understand the child.

You can't offer good quality childcare if you aren't willing to see each child as a person with individual needs and rights.

Nursery routines are put in place to meet the needs of children. It isn't appropriate to leave a child in discomfort in order that they fit into the routines. That is completely backwards thinking.

Nappy changes every three or four hours should be considered a minimum for children in disposable nappies. The needs of those in cloth nappies, those with sensitive skin or nappy rash and those whose home routines mean they won't be changed for some time after leaving the setting are different. The routines must be adapted to take these needs into account.

Wow this thread has been a real eye opener!

I thought nursery would be best for my DD but due to wanting term time only we chose a childminder. It's such a shame Tinks wouldn't recommend nurseries despite working in one because you hear that about a lot of jobs 'I wouldn't let my child/friend/relative do X because I work in that industry'

And to children's basic needs being met but not higher level needs (thinking Maslow now!) so they aren't 'nurtured' I can honestly say my DD is nurtured at her CMs and I am 100% thankful that a cost choice I made actually ended up being a loving choice too. Especially as I felt guilty as every child I know bar about 3 go to nurseries not CMs.

I can't imagine sending my child in a night nappy despite her protestations every morning about her bottom change. Fair enough staff always change after a poo so that's good to hear but it sounds as though the staff:child ratio is a difficult one, despite UK childcare being amongst the most expensive in Europe, many workers are on low wages AND many nurseries claim to hardly make any money. There's something amiss with the economics, although I have no idea what, nor a solution.

Maybe I'm just lucky with DD's nursery. She is well looked after and nurtured there, the workers are attentive and will break the nappy routine if a baby has pooed or is visibly in discomfort from a full nappy. They work with each child's feeding routine and allow parents in at any time but are very strict on who is allowed in.

As for a CM being more personal, yesterday OH only mentioned in passing that I've been unwell. DD came home with a get well soon card they helped her make.

I ccan't imagine sending her anywhere else. It's so convenient as its on my university campus - I couldn't have continued my studies without it.

Tinks posts strike me as a thinly-veiled attack on those who send their children to a nursery.

I've worked in a few nurseries now and feel like I should stick up for them!

My eldest was at nursery from 11 months and my youngest would've started at 9 months had my work situation not changed at the time, I was 100% happy that the nurseries I had chosen would suit their needs and would nurture my children. After meeting a few childminders and viewing their routines I decided it wasn't for us but that doesn't mean its not quality childcare.

I'm quite frankly, disgusted by the attitude of Tinks, the way the parents are being disrespected and the fact that despite "loving children" she seems so happy to state that the children in her workplace are not being looked after in an individual need capacity really is awful. If I worked in such a place I'd be speaking with management rather than touting it on a forum.

I now work with children and young people with varying levels of disability, we have a 17 year old who needs hoisting and 2 members of staff to change but we still fit in a change before his mum collects him because that is what she requests and we respect that as its part of his care. If we can do this then changing a baby is a doddle.

I don't think Tinks works in a very good setting. DS has been in 2 different settings since 12 months (only moved from first one due to house move) and they've both been warm, friendly, happy to accommodate requests where possible and DS seems very happy there. And although earlier on in the thread I suggested using a disposable to alleviate the issue without any bother, I do think the OPs nursery should be open to the request. Even if the answer is 'yes we'll try, but if we haven't had time to do it when you arrive we'll do it then, or you can use our changing area' or whatever. Although at both the outstanding nurseries DS has been at parents aren't allowed to use the changing areas as they won't necessarily follow the hygiene rules properly. On a couple of occasions I've arrived as he's pooed and the staff have always whisked him off to change him.

I'm a qualified pre school practitioner nursery nurse and I'd treat your child as well as I'd treat my own. It's not about a demanding parent, there's nothing demanding about asking for your child to be dry and clean enough to have a comfortable journey home. It's about the child's needs. Don't go into nursery work if you have a problem changing a nappy Fgs.

"about asking for your child to be dry and clean enough to have a comfortable journey home. It's about the child's needs."

Well, not technically. The child in this case would be clean and dry enough to go home, but the mother wants to go out and about on errands en route. So it's actually about the mother's needs really, or at least, her putting her own needs above that of her child and blaming the nursery for it. That's fine, but at least own it.

The child in this case would be clean and dry enough to go home, but the mother wants to go out and about on errands en route

Whao, clam, so mothers should go straight home from the nursery and not pass go?

I don't like regimented nappy changing. It doesn't take babies individual needs into account. What about the baby who has a tendency to suffer nappy rash? Sorry baby, it's not 1:30pm yet! And actually, they most definitely should be taking each child's needs into account. This child's mum can't go straight home so she needs a quick change before she leaves nursery. How terribly demanding of the mum who is paying a King's ransom every week

Well, Coyoacan, if you read my post properly, I actually said it wasn't unreasonable for her to go out and about afterwards, but to at least own it. She wants the baby changed to suit her own agenda. I have no issue with that, (we all do it to varying degrees), but to pass it off as the Nursery's fault is unfair, I think.

I think in the case of cloth nappies there is a certain amount that you have made a choice which has limits to the amounts of convenience it offers you and sometimes you have to work around that inconvenience. So yes, be prepared to either change the nappy yourself before you leave or find somewhere you can do it during your errands. Most supermarkets have changing rooms.

But it is the OPs decision to use them so I think really she does need to pick up a bit of slack. It's not really fair on the other kids who will have things like outdoor clothes, really mucky nappies, parents who have important things to talk to the assistants about, to have to be kept waiting every night because the OP demands her baby is bone dry at x minutes past 6.

It would also be unfair because everyone might start demanding it and it would be impossible. There are ways to work around it

They should be providing her with an area to change though.

And I suspect that part of the reason why parents are paying "a King's ransom" for Nursery these days is due to us making more and more demands of those who care for our children. That's all very well, IF we're willing to pay for it.

Nurseries are businesses, staff get paid minimum wage, a lot of them girls right out of school doing an NVQ and get used as dogsbodies. They're run for profit. Some are very good regardless and this isn't an issue but really, don't imagine the costs are so high because of parents expecting their children are properly looked after.