To think donating someone's organs without their consent is a serious ethical issue..

[BabyX]

I'm referring to the news today that a newborn baby's organs have been donated after doctors diagnosed her, at birth, as brain-dead. Her parents have been able to give the chance of life to others, I see that. The recipients and their families must be incredibly relieved and grateful. Hopefully that will comfort the parents of the baby, who is now, of course, dead. Organs can only be taken while the donor is still alive.

But AIBU to think you cannot just decide to give away the organs of another human being without their consent? Is it our choice to make?

I'm not sure if I am unreasonable to think this or not. I may just be clouded by sadness at the death of this poor baby who never got a chance at life. It's heartbreaking. Had my child not survived her birth, the thought of carving her up for parts is horrifying.

I do not mean to be disrespectful, I'm just struggling to concur with the general reaction that this is a wonderful "selfless" act.

Only I have the right to say what happens to my body
Yes, while you are alive.
I really don't think it should apply to what happens after that.
Wishes should be respected as much as possible, but I don't think that it should be legally mandatory.

'I really don't think it should apply to what happens after that.'

You don't? Because that kind of thinking it what it behind the baby ashes scandal in Edinburgh and Glasgow, other cases in which children's organs were taken from their bodies after death (for research only) without the parents' permission, where babies' graves have been dug up and moved by councils or other children interred in the same plot with no permission from the parents.

And you really think this is okay? You'd be alright if this happened to your child? 'Oh, well, fuck it, they're dead already.'

For real?

I'm on the register and carry a donor card on me - I would happily give anything that would be of use. I take great comfort that a friend helped save or improve the lives of a number of people after her tragic death - so brave of her parents. Equally I can see how at a terrible time it might not be right for everyone - I hope I would have the same strength as these poor parents.

I'm in the WI and we have been encouraged to make sure our family know our wishes but I don't really understand who is my next of kin. I'm very recently married and my parents still probably know my wishes far better than DH.

That is not the same as the consideration for the feelings of the relatives and loved ones.
I have repeatedly said that those wishes should be respected.

The dead child (or adult) itself suffers no consequences from whatever happens after death.

And actually, I don't think I'd mind if the body of my child was buried minus a few organs, no. Even if without my consent.
I still love him to bits, though.

But you don't know. Of course not. It's all fine waxing theoretical, it's another to pronounce one's theories as judgement to others who don't feel the same way and who believe that, ultimately, one's wishes regarding their own corpse or that of their child can and should be over ridden by others when those others deem it suitable.

I finally got the e-petition approved.The adress to sign it :

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/74008

I am not on the register however my DH and kids know that if anything happens to me then my organs can be used. But that is 'my choice' it is not for the state to decide what happens to my body even if I am dead and gone. I understand that adult/children who need a transplant can be/get very desperate for an organ, but to me its almost 'asking' for another person to die just so someone else can live

to me it's almost 'asking' for another person to die just so someone else can live

This has to be the most ridiculous statement anyone has ever written about organ donation.

i have a donor card

my family know my wishes

i won't need any of it if I am dead, so if it helps someone else then I am all for it. Pointless having me rot away in the ground when i could have saved other peoples lives

in fact, i genuinely cannot understand how anyone could think differently

• MrsDeVere Wed 21-Jan-15 15:19:21

Wonderful post MrsD.

Yabu

Her parents consented . Are you saying that therefore no children can be organ donors ?

Would you accept an organ for yourself or your DC? If yes, YABvvvU.

What do you think happens to a dead body? The organs will decompose or be cremated. How is that better than using them to save a life?

That said mrs dv ( bless your loss ) raises a sad and critical point . If god forbid your beloved one died you would want to be with their body afterwards l suspect . Having them whipped away fast ( understandably) must be so harrowing . So even more respect for them

"...But that is 'my choice' it is not for the state to decide what happens to my body even if I am dead and gone..."

Actually, somewheresomehow, according to the Human Tissue Act, when a person dies in hospital, the body belongs to the hospital administration, so technically, legally the state can decide. I believe it is this act that allows for a post mortem if the medical profession feel one is necessary, even if this is against the next of kin's wishes.

In practice, the government/ medical profession etc realise that it would be hugely unpopular, and there would be massive protests, if they decided to use this legislation to obtain organs for transplantation - it has to be done with the next of kin's agreement.

Your point about it being almost like 'asking' for someone to die, so another person can get a transplant - I suspect that this is something that people waiting for transplants - especially if they are waiting for a transplant for a child - are really torn about and struggle with. Knowing your continued existence, or that of your child, depends on another person dying, another family being bereaved - I think this must be really tough to deal with. I don't think this was a ridiculous thing to say at all.

And actually, I don't think I'd mind if the body of my child was buried minus a few organs, no. Even if without my consent.
I still love him to bits, though

Yes. Agreed. By OP's logic no one would be vaccinated until they could give consent.

So far as the baby ashes scandal , the tragedy was the death of the baby, it looks a bit liking picking a scab off a wound to keep it open.

'So far as the baby ashes scandal , the tragedy was the death of the baby, it looks a bit liking picking a scab off a wound to keep it open.'

Ding dong! Yet another wonderfully insensitive post.

Yes, the hell with all those bereaved parents who were lied to about their stillborn children and neonatally dead children, they should just shut up about what happened to their childrens' remains because what do they matter? They are just trying to keep the wound open.

I have a newsflash for everyone who posts such ignorant twaddle: when your child dies, the wound never closes.

I won't write just what I think of people who write such crap, it would break Talk Guidelines.

I've not read the full thread, I can't, I'm crying too much. thank you to all the people who have donated organs of their loved ones, thank you to everyone who is on the organ donor register, and thank you to everyone who thinks of their (or their families') received organs as gifts.

Personally, I am thankful that I have never been in a position to need a donation, or to need to give consent to donate a loved ones organs, but as with shabbs son (i also wish him the biggest willy ever), I asked mum at about 4 or 5 if I could go on the register and have been on ever since. I have attempted to give blood half a dozen times and failed every time (shy veins) , am on the Anthony Nolan register for bone marrow and am trying to pluck up the courage to go on the living register. I only hope that one day, I can help others to live.

The tragedy is losing the baby , not the ashes.

'The tragedy is losing the baby , not the ashes.'

The parents of those children have a far better understanding of the tragedy in their lives, Lizzie. And, naturally, as it was the remains of their children involved, they felt differently from you, Lizzie, because they were lied to and believe it or not, when your child dies, you actually want a say over what is done with their remains rather than having it decided for you with no consultation and prefer not to be lied to. Hence, they went to court.

But carry on minimising their feelings regarding the loss of their own children. I'm sure you understand their tragedy far better than they.

Carving up for parts.

That's made me feel sick. You have no idea.

I hope I would be able to do that. Incredibly brave. Saving another baby/ies in the midst if your own tragedy.

If you want to ban baby/child donations. You need to ban baby/child recipients. Anyone can develop a life threatening organ failure at any time. You never know what might happen.

I read this story and thought what amazingly brave and kind people these people are after going through something so awful.
This is a major medical advance they have facilitated and will save multiple lives (not only of the children that received their baby's organs but the babies who are able to have transplants who may have previously been deemed to young).