To say that in the light of what has happened in Paris we mustn't give the extremists what they want..?

[AWholeLottaNosy]

I'd like to reproduce an article in The New Statesman which is basically saying that the aims of these attacks is to increase anti Muslim prejudice, increasing attacks on these communities ( as we've already seen in France) and thereby increasing the sense of alienation and hostility towards the West and recruiting more terrorists...?

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-attack-really-struggle-over-european-values

Fantastic point well made OP. I live in an area where many Muslims live, and it is really hard to not feel paranoid and angry, afterall we are only humans and we naturally feel fear. However, you are absolutely right, we can't let the extremists win! We have to try and be as balanced tolerant people as we can..even though it's really hard right now, I can't lie. We all have to, for the sake of humanity, otherwise we are playing right into the extremists' hands.

Lemony - if you're using this attack as an excuse for your far-right leanings, you're playing right into the terrorists' hands. More fool you.

That's a great article AWholeLottaNosy, thanks for linking it.

I agree OP. I also think that we need to look at how increasing prejudice both alienates young Muslims and pushes already alienated young people to consider radical Islam a viable alternative. These aren't terrorists who are growing up in Islamic countries, they are growing up here and we have to think about how our society influences them as much as how Islam influences them.

SolomanDaisy I wholeheartedly agree. We do indeed need to look at what has motivated these young people to turn into dangerous fundamentalists. But they are, as I understand it, being groomed by older and more cynical leaders who are using them as pawns in a sinister game of their own.

Our society must try to remain calm and continue to treat everyone as individual human beings, not seeing certain members of a religion as targets for reprisals or attacks.

My dh is a Muslim, and we're just hoping that these events won't change the happy life he leads here in Eastern England. He's absolutely shocked and horrified at the Paris attacks. His brother is there at the moment, in the same locality, with many African Muslims, and we're praying that the Parisians don't start taking revenge in violence and counter-attacks.

Muslims everywhere must unite in disassociating themselves from any of this and stridently condemn the killings. My dh says that such actions are about as far from Islam as one could get. He's very upset today.

They said on the radio this morning that they were a pair of pot-heads, drifting in and out of petty crime before they were radicalised. I don't think this is the first time disenfranchised young men have become radicalised - they are being groomed by extremist organisations so we as a society need to deal with that.

Hatespiders I am also frightened for Muslims and anyone of colour (and I know that not all Muslims are PoC) right now. A lot of people are very scared :(

I saw a post tonight on Facebook RE a man praying on the floor of the train as it was a long journey, he went to the quiet part of the train and a "friend" on Facebook posted a photo of the man mid prayer, saying he was basically an inconvenience and a nutcase and he scared her. This offended me but I put it down to "ignance" it was the comments that followed that really shocked me "should have kicked him in the head" "I would have booted him out of the door while it was moving" "probably saying thanks about what just happened in Paris" "he's encroaching on peoples space can't he be more considerate after what's gone on"

Praying on the floor of the train? Seriously?

The violent comments about kicking him - same as the violent attacks on mosques in Paris - I think these are violent thugs who love a good excuse to hit out and if they do get caught, you soon find that this is not their first time acting violent towards innocent people.

The comment about being more considerate - I see where this one is coming from. It's like rubbing people's face in it I think. Like 'I know people are worried about Islamic extremism at the moment, so I'll just get on the train floor and start doing my prayers.' Seriously? What will his God do to him if he waits until he gets home to do his prayers, hmm?

Nothing to do with religion, it's just not polite to do this on a train, same as people who brush their hair, do their makeup, floss their teeth, clip their toe nails, etc - they should all wait until they get home.

It depends on what you mean by giving extremists what they want- if you mean non- Muslims should censor themselves, then, no definitely not.

I sincerely hope there is no backlash either if that is what is meant.

As for the article, there's a hint of blame being thrown at the journalists which I found a bit uncomfortable.

The #JeSuisCharlie and #IamCharlie Twitter hashtags, which required uncritical support of the magazine in lieu of sympathy with the murdered, only entrenched this schism.

Why does she assume support for the magazine (which I think was entirely the correct response) precludes sympathy for the victims?

Mmm I detect a hint of victim blaming going on in this thread. 'What motivated them' excuse me? What motivated them was their complete and utter belief that their religion is that important those who DARE to criticise deserve death.

OP what would you like to see being done then? What they want is for western civilisation to submit to sharia law. That is their goal.

Kawliga they have to pray at a certain time.

Oh plus it's probably some made up status by Britain First/BNP that loads of people are spreading.

Depressing. And defending it, even more depressing.

Grays..bollocks that it's victim blaming. People are considering the feelings of millions of peace loving Muslims whom we are not victims of. Oh and also tryin to improve the climate of the country so there is less radicalization. Hardly victim blaming.

Oops yes I know it's radicalisation

The comment about being more considerate - I see where this one is coming from. It's like rubbing people's face in it I think.

Indeed. A person who wasn't involved and is in a different county should be compelled by manners and decency to pretend he isn't a Muslim because to do otherwise ix rubbing the noses of people who also weren't there in an event that none of them were affected by. Makes perfect sense.

So, if I follow your point :
Car bombers tried to increase prejudice against the IRA.
Paedophiles priests tried to increase prejudice against the Catholic church.
Breivik tried to increase prejudice against the far right.
etc.

No you don't follow the point.

The point is that if after the attacks there was more prejudice and more attacks against Muslims, leading more young men to radicalise and become terrorists , that would benefit the terrorists.

Which is not a good thing.

Not sure I follow your point tbh. Are you advocating more attacks on Muslims?

I assume not, bit there's nothing like wilful point missing.

Nothing to do with religion, it's just not polite to do this on a train, same as people who brush their hair, do their makeup, floss their teeth, clip their toe nails, etc - they should all wait until they get home.
Praying is not the same as doing any of those things, it just happens to be a little more visible than 'christian' prayers. Nothing to do with bad manners.

Totally with you op and royal.

I put a list on another thread of right wing christian incidents, no different.

Lemony, you're talking nonsense.

So, if I follow your point :

You clearly don't. These deluded half wits carrying out attacks such as this do so with the purpose of:

A. Increasing prejudice against Muslim people, which will
B. Lead to more Muslim people becoming disaffected, causing
C. An increase in radicalization, provoking
D. A conflict that they believe they could win, gaining
E. The extension of the type of state run religious world we see in the Middle East and parts of Africa.

It all stems, of course, from the understanding that many in western countries are as stupid, willfully blind, reactionary and bigoted as they are.

I find it baffling that with all the information available to the public today people seem to find it impossible to tell the difference between Muslims & Islamic fundamentalists.

The former have every right to be treated with as much respect & tolerance as anyone else, the latter need coming down on like a ton of bricks, but how that can be achieved without massive collateral damage I don't know.

Tbf I don't think the security services help with spouting forth about how high the current risk of attack in the UK is and that they can't necessarily prevent it.

Surely they're playing into the terrorist's hands by making people even more fearful?

Sadly its only farage who had despicably tried to capitalise on these horrific incidents. The growing group of bigoted mnetters have been out in force this week and i have had to hide many threads where really awful and sickening views were presented.

It feels like some people are frothing and using this as a legitimation of their views. I have been on mn for years and a few years ago some of the views presented would have been challenged. Now it's less frequent. The intolerance and separatist us and them language is far more worrying to me than the attacks. I live in a multicultural area and have muslim friends. I've increasingly seen them subjected to racism over the last few years. How can we tackle extremism by alienating those who can help eradicate it?

Yanbu op.

Hatespiders Muslims everywhere are reacting and coming out against these attacks.

Cartoons in Arab newspapers in responce to Charlie Hebdo

Muslim Council of Britain

response. Apologies.

Totally, absolutely agree with the OP and Wyrdbird.

Is it so difficult to understand the difference between Muslims and a particular brand of extremism? Do those who can't, also not see the difference between Christians and the Klu Klux Klan, Germans and the Nazis?

It is of course necessary to come down very hard on extremism, this may mean the curtailing of some long held rights and some very hard decisions for our democratic societies. But the fight is against a faction and not a religion or race.

But FFS, increasing divisions within our society and creating our own fear is vital to recruiting people to their causes. We need to stand shoulder by shoulder.

WyrdByrd of course we only need to come down on like a ton of bricks on people who have done something wrong.

However, I think that the distinction between a peace-loving majority of Muslims and a minority of extremists is sadly lacking basis in facts.
I know a fair number of Muslims (DH is a former Muslim, from a Muslim country). Most of them are educated. I have also had many Muslim pupils. I am yet to meet one who :

• condemns September 11th unequivocally.
• disapproved of the death penalty for apostates.

and this is for the issue of violence only. Let us not mention womens' rights or gay people.

I think Islam needs its Reformation and its Enlightenment.