to think britain is a difficult place to be if you're muslim ( part 2 )

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The attack on Charlie Hebdo.
Shall we have 3 guesses who's responsible?

LurkingHusbang if you want to be pedantic, wearing them in public is illegal.

And for the fucked up fanatics:

BreakingDad77 I think you will find that French people are a lot more tolerant than the scum that gunned down these innocent people.

SenatusPopulusqueRomanorum

LurkingHusbang if you want to be pedantic, wearing them in public is illegal

Which is not at all what you said. It would be pedantic to correct you on a minor matter, not on something which was patently (and now you have admitted) untrue. Especially as the uncorrected version had a whiff of hyperbole about it. This is Mumsnet, not the Daily Mail.

Lurking If she had been naked and I had written "nudity is illegal in France", I think you would have understood perfectly well that I meant "it is illegal to be naked in a theatre / supermarket / the street in France".

It is tragic but I am not surprised something has happened in France as it is much less tolerant and has been on the boil for sometime. Recently wasn't some woman thrown out of an opera? for wearing a niqab i think.

This is easily interpreted as "those fucking French, always harping on the poor Muslims. That will teach those intolerant frogs."
Do not go back on your posts, now...

moderate muslims are off the fence, they really are. Look at Twitter today it's bubbling over with outrage from Muslims from France and rest of the world.

Your post was smug and offensive to me BreakingDad, very much of the preening "we British are so much more tolerant than the French" style.
The subsequent yell of "Internet morons" did put your tolerance into doubt, in my mind at least.

I interpreted BD77's post as along the lines of "It is tragic but not surprising as there are many reasons why extremists would want to target France"

We are getting off track here from OP

The internet morons comment is to nip in the bud the idiots who were starting to hold me up as some sort of terrorist apologist.

I never said we were better, the UK doesn't have the same restrictive laws as France and has suffered several terrorist attacks so your argument of me 'preening' is rubbish.

An attack in France was sadly a matter of when.

As was said in Parliament today we will never give in in the West. We assert and will exercise our right to draw cartoons, wear any T shirts we like and say what we like including that there is no God and homosexuality is absolutely fine and sexism is awful. A few bombs won't stop us.
I hope tomorrow everyone in the British press publishes the cartoons which the violence in Paris including at least 12 deaths supposedly resulted from in revenge in the name of the non existent Allah.

The last thread ended with the lovely comment that the UK is actually a pretty tolerant country for people of different views and I share that view as an atheist feminist. I do not think we want to go around banning religions and clothing however much some of us disagree with them. Nor however will we give in to censorship.

The people today targeted Charlie Hebdo because they can't live with free speech and feel justified to murder.

Breakingdad77, the opera incident did not involve a French National. The woman in question, I believe, was from one of the Gulf states.

Indeed, I have a colleague who researches this area and he is of the firm belief that a lot of these incidents, such as the one in Paris today, are actually part of a wider geo-strategic game of chess on the part of the Gulf States towards the West, Russia and China. They are tiny countries with a heap of money and are basically using proxies and mercenaries to attempt to influence blackmail world powers.

The sad thing about all this is that a lot of very naive young Muslims in non-Muslim countries do not understand this is the case. They think this shit is real -- ie. that it is all about pure jihad or whatever when they are really being either used as cannon fodder or as part of an international "mindless mob".

moderate muslims are off the fence, they really are. Look at Twitter today it's bubbling over with outrage from Muslims from France and rest of the world

Really ?

So they are condemning the Quran and the actions of Muhammed, because if they're not, then they really aren't off the fence.

In the words of another former muslim:

A @SecularlyYours · 1h 1 hour ago
If you are not condemning the #Islamic ideology that killed 12 at #CharlieHebdo, your sympathy doesn't mean shit.
Support #FreeSpeech.

worksallhours

I agree, its almost like a new cold war.

There have been cases of Wahhabi literature specifically making it way into islamic schools and mosques in the west to start the process.

I'd like to see our papers publish the cartoons to show we're not giving in, but I somehow doubt that will happen.

Not sure what would happen if you posted one here. I suspect it would be deleted

Mistress. In an ideal world I'd love nobody to be religious and absolutely everyone to accept that god - in any form - does not exist.

realistically that ain't gonna happen. so moderate religious people condemning the more extreme factions of their faith is a good start.

I agree with Mia, condemning the actions aren't the same.

Moderate muslims need to come forward and say that the passages in the Quran are wrong.

The sunnah and hadiths are up for massive interpretation anyway

BreakingDad77 I had sympathy for you when you were called a moron. I lost a bit when you say moderate muslims need to stand up to extremism. What exactly are you expecting law abiding Muslim citizens living in Europe to do? Did we ask Irish Catholics living in England in the 80s to stand up to the IRA?
In addition when moderate Muslim countries crack down on Muslim extremists they are criticized by the West for violating human rights. The Arab Spring removed figures like Hosni Mubarak and his interior minister Habib El Adli who had done an excellent job controlling extremism and rounding up terrorists. Lots on moderate Muslims living in Egypt were in despair whilst the West looked on.

And the reason why Britain's press hasn't been targeted is:

How the terrorists win: @Telegraph is now blurring the cover Mohammed cartoon of #CharlieHebdo in its reporting

I don't blame the Telegraph, their staff's safety is paramount.

Its time to stop letting Islam off the hook.

Richard Dawkins @RichardDawkins · 1h 1 hour ago
They shouted “We have avenged the Prophet Muhammad.” … Some useful idiot will claim it had nothing to do with religion.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

Lem I don't think that the troubles in Ireland are the same, they may have been to begin with but morphed into something else.

Lem I'm hoping for a reformation much like the church went through as otherwise we are just chasing our tails with the 'Real Muslim' conundrum.

Moderate muslims need to come forward and say that the passages in the Quran are wrong.

Yes! or if they think it is right then they should say that too so we know where we stand.

Those who want to fit in, speak English and abide by our laws should not find it hard to live in UK. Those who harbour hatred and applaud terrorist murders must take their chance.

The Quran is different to the bible in that it is supposed to be the words of God dictated to Muhammed, where as the bible is a collection of peoples observations of Jesus.

So where does that leave moderates? Extremists are effectively the 'Real Muslims' as they are following the book. Moderates need to get hold of this and turn the thinking.