to think britain is a difficult place to be if you're muslim ( part 2 )

[adsy]

The attack on Charlie Hebdo.
Shall we have 3 guesses who's responsible?

Well Sikhs don't seem to be. It shouldn't really bother me. The Sikh objection seems as far as I can understand it come down to not being a hypocrite. From what I've read Sikhism doesn't have an issue about eating meat but does seem to think apologising and praying over an animal you've just slaughtered and are about to eat doesn't make it any better for the animal.

That makes sense to me.

Littleducks are you saying no Muslims ever buy meat from Tescos or Sainsbury etc?

Sorry I meant it shouldn't bother me but it does. I think what bothers me is the worry the praying bit will trump the causing a little pain as possible bit.

I rarely eat red meat so maybe I will just give it up.

It is hard to generalise. My sons' friend (Muslim) had pepperami pizza when they all went out recently another one of their friends would not allow into his house even if he wasn't eating it any pork. Ditto Jewish people around here - one couple we knew served bacon sandwiches at the son's bar mitzvah !!! and others including the last house we looked round have two kitchens to separate meat and milk.

Lots of ham on take away pizza isnt ham - its that fake stuff..

I don't eat pork. Pigs just seem too intelligent to eat. I don't eat chicken and turkey as I don't like it and not that keen on beef. I could easily give up beef.

I eat game ; winged game shot in season cannot be Halal. Deer , depending on whether it is wild or farmed might be.

I occasionally eat lamb. It probably will be Halal.

There's seems to be a flaw in the argument that leads to all meat being halal.

Look at it from the supermarket's point of view.

If they label it halal non-muslims might refuse to buy it.

But if it's unlabelled then Muslims can't buy it anyway.

Surely then it makes sense to sell non-halal meat in supermarkets.

Unless of course most Muslims are buying the unlabelled meat, but in that case they don't really care about halal so there's no problem and we can still sell non-halal meat in supermarkets.

Surely then it makes sense to sell non-halal meat in supermarkets.

How so?

If halal meat is cheaper and labelling it turns away customers. Surely the logical thing to do is sell halal meat without labelling it?

I don't think the Muslim factor is relevant because they don't make up enough of the user base to cater for them by labelling the meat.

Actually having looked at this Waitrose meat apart from some lamb, mainly NZ lamb is non- halal.

NZ lamb is stunned but prayed over. So, a bit of a non issue.

Phaedra-

Muslims who don't "keep" halal will presumerably buy meat from wherever they want because they aren't bothered which probably include supermarkets.

Muslims who only eat halal meat will want to know the meat they are buying is halal and so will buy meat that is clearly labelled or from halal butchers. They won't be buying normal meat just on the supermarket shelf (that apparently when there is cheap halal meat available to suppliers happens to be halal).

I don't really give a fuck if my meat is prayed over or not; makes no odds to me. People who are a bit concerned about animal welfare can get free range/organically/ethically farmed stuff or whatever. Most halal meat is stunned prior to slaughter so it makes no odds as to the method really - what is important is how it was reared beforehand, and you can vote with your feet about that. People who are really concerned about animal welfare and don't want animals to suffer can go vegetarian; I doubt very much that your average chicken thinks to itself 'Whoop-de-doo, time to die, thank fuck I'm not halal, let's go for it lads'.

I would rather buy non halal meat.

You do realise that the animal dies regardless, don't you?

I would prefer to buy non- halal meat.

Cruickshank I only buy organic meat. I rarely buy chicken or pork but when I do I only buy free range.

Sheep and deer are never intensively reared. Scotch beef is usually reared by extensive grass- feeding.

I don't buy farmed (caged) salmon.

I would rather buy non halal meat.

If it's ok to sell us unlabeled meat to trick us into eating then then let's just have all non-halal, but write 'halal' on some of it.

Since it's 'no different' it won't matter right?

Yes. Cruickshank I do know it dies.

As I said the Sikh position that praying over it does no good to either man or beast, but treating it well and giving it a quick and as pain free a death as possible seems a rational position.

But the vast majority of halal meat is stunned. So it has a quick and painless death. I really don't see what there is to get worked up about re this. Like I say, if you want your dead slabs of flesh to have had happy lives prior to slaughter and you ripping into them with your teeth, you can do that. And you can do it with halal meat just as easily as you can with non-halal meat.

Since it's 'no different' it won't matter right?

It's no different if you don't believe in God or prays. Obv. it matters to a Muslim.

Yes they have an opinion but so do I. I know a Muslim man's opinion is worth twice (or is it 4 times) that of a Muslim woman, but is it worth twice that of a non-muslim man?

Try to actually look at it from a different side, username. Suppose I belonged to another religion that said meat must NOT be halal? What would you recommend then?

Suppose I belonged to another religion that said meat must NOT be halal?

Which do exist.

What would you recommend then?

Obviously that is an argument for labelling.

but labelling wouldn't help if all the meat was halal. See?

but labelling wouldn't help if all the meat was halal. See?

It would. Because you would have the choice to buy it or shop for your meat elsewhere.

Where can you buy non-halal meat?

And what about places like schools where all dinners are halal in case a Muslim eats there?