To give in/not give in re 16

[Paddleslowly]

Ds likes playing games on the xbox and often plays online with others. He is very into minecraft which I don't mind as it's age appropriate for him as he is twelve. He is now sulking that it's not fair because the rest of his friends from school are either playing Call of Duty, Grand theft Auto and Battlefield. And he is left out from the group players online. Most of his minecraft friends are from year 5/6.
He knows that I disagree with the first two games totally inappropriate for his age as they are 18. However I looked into the content on a demo of Battlefield which is a 16 rating. It seems to be soldiers running around a field firing at each other in the army. maybe I should let him grow up a bit more and let him play with his mates on Battlefield! Apparently I've ruined his life!! Think he is entering the Kevin and Perry stage

JohnQuig

I wasn't the one accusing your of mansplaining.

but my point stands - if you know your child can handle it, why should the age rating matter?

If a 12 yr old child can "handle" the content of a game such as GTA5, or a film or anything with similar content I would suggest there was something slightly askew with the upbringing of that child.

What makes someone aged 17yrs364days less mature than someone who is exactly 18?

I already stated I would never let my 12 yr old play and 18, but at 16? Maybe so yes, especially if it was just based on sexual content, once they are old enough to have sex they are old enough to view content with sex in it. And depending on the content, younger than 16 too.

I'm presuming most of the women banning these games are joint owners of their homes with their husbands, so why don't they get a say in what comes into the house? Some of the women made it clear that the men in their families had no interest in such things and completely agreed with it. You seemed to think it absurd that they would agree with them.

just the ones who are outright banning things based on spurious claims and downright lies (e.g. sexism and shagging hookers being integral to the game) Some games you can't avoid it, for instance San Andreas has a lot more sexual content than the others, some of it unavoidable, or games such as God of War, where although gratuitous violence all the way through, has some unavoidable sex related scenes throughout.

It's not about the games being "all about that" but if the content is there an unavoidable (Which it is) then it's inappropriate. As I said before as an adult you can judge which bits are and are not, but as a child playing the game, you just play it, you aren't considering which bits you should/shouldn't be doing, and there is no such thing as a parental lock on these games (that's why they are rated the way they are)

Sorry, just picking myself up off the floor following John's assertion that GTA isn't sexist. Can hardly post for laughing, although sexism in a lot of games, and particularly GTA5 is no laughing matter.

You'll be saying it's not violent next.

Posters are not BANNING their husbands fgs. Part of being in a healthy long term relationship is respecting the other person's viewpoints and feelings, and accommodating them accordingly if your relationship is important enough. Most couples share the same values though - that's what makes them compatible. If you don't share the same values then you generally work that out fairly early on and are able to decide how much of a deal breaker that is, before you start to fully share your lives together.

And you can't really expect a 12 year old to be disciplined or aware enough to avoid certain unsavoury bits of a game.

Interesting and long article on GTA5 and women from a gaming site

www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/12/11/you-dont-have-to-kill-prostitutes-in-gta-v/

Now, I don't agree with everything in this article but I think it proves the games aren't sexist. The women are treated the same as men (actually better in this case) and no female character is just there for looks. Some of them are criminal kingpins who are just as vile and disgusting as the men.

I do agree a female character to play as would be a nice change - they have that in Saints Row.

And, as the article says, you don't have to do anything even approaching being violent against women or sex workers... so there you are, definitive proof.

I'm done with this this thread. Especially JohnQuig you're ignoring any point that challenges your opinion and just picking out what some people are saying. Have fun everyone.

The women are nearly all semi-naked strippers and prostitutes. Ask yourself why women are portrayed as strippers and prostitutes on the edge of the game, and why men are the protagonists, the big tough guys. And allowed to be fully clothed.

You're so into it, you can't even see it.

What do you us to do? - Hand this 18 rated game over to our 12yr olds and say, don't worry son, you don't have to kill prostitutes.

John when you and your cousin were playing San Andreas as 12 year olds did you have the maturity to censor your game play or did you kill prostitutes?

I'm quite bemused by this thread and slightly flabbergasted. GTA is not for children, I think we can all agree on that. If parents let their children play it that's their look out. I personally wouldn't allow a child of twelve to play it,

But then I wouldn't allow a 15 year old to play Far Cry/Cod either and some parents allow that but don't allow GTA which I find bewildering. How do you explain that if they are rated the same?

"Sorry son while you can't play GTA, but you can go and kill some people and wildlife in Far cry if you like, enjoy some of the more disturbing cut scenes where people are murdered and hey don't forget to do a good search of all the people you kill as lots of them have drugs you can sell in game for money"

But as I have said before with Far cry, throw in a city, a nightclub and some prostitutes and you have Grand theft Auto. I have played both and I would not let a teen play either to be honest. It puzzles me the same people on this thread who say they don't allow violent games will probably have one or both of he games I mentioned previously, so actually they do have violent games in their households but as parents they have either turned a blind eye to it, are ok with it because it's not GTA (and of course nothing is as bad as that) or they aren't aware.

I love how GTA is the poster game for video game violence, when actually there are plenty of games on the market that have unsuitable content for children but because there's not as much controversy about those games there doesn't seem to be much kick up from parents.

I play a wide variety of games. I have played GTA and I don't like the bits with prostitutes, I don't take part in it because it doesn't do it for me. My DP plays it and again isnt interested in that aspect. But it's not my place to tell him he cannot play it or bring it into our home. We are both adults. We both understand it is a game. We won't allow our DCs to play it because we disagree with that. But that extends to a lot more games than Grand Theft Auto.

I do understand it to an extent, even if it leaves me slightly bemused too. You said you don't like the bits with the prostitutes, whereas some people are really offended by it, and that is an aspect few games have. Definitely agree that GTA gets a reputation as so much worse in the wider media because it's such a big name. I don't think Rockstar would want it any other way, though.

53dragon

whilst I think the parents' attitude was reprehensible in allowing young children access to such inappropriate material, the young people themselves seem to be refreshingly unaffected by it. I would say that they were perfectly well able to differentiate between the fantasy world and real life. They're well-adjusted young men - you couldn't tell any difference between those who regularly played violent or sexual games at an early age and my own sons

How many if those young men are you in an intimate relationship with? I'm guessing none. You don't know how it's affected them, all you know is what they choose to show of themselves to their mates mum.

GTA5 isn't on my 'don't want it in the house' on it's own, there are several other games there too, and will be more no doubt. As I said I really really dislike seeing my family participate in sadistic violence so that does exclude a number of titles. I'm also not keen on games that have mooks whose repeated dialogue is just a whole load of swearing. The list isn't mine alone, but in agreement with my husband who knows more about games than I do in any case as he is the serious gamer.

Oh and if there was something he really didn't like me to do/watch at home then no I'd not do it. Nothing has come up in the last 25 odd years though. I've not asked him not to play particular games either (sometimes he starts games and then decides that they aren't for him, like the Far Cry series which he thought was really for teenagers and not very interesting) nor do I tell my children they can't watch TV shows that I don't like, although some have been banned from being watched when dh and I are in the sitting room too (mainly terrible US teenage stuff that dd used to like).

To be honest I don't really have a problem with being a dictator, although I am happy to discuss house rules with my children and if they have a good argument to adjust my position.

Oh and HermitCrab, I thought some more about the difference between films and games and I think it's the immersion and the time difference that does it for me really. A scary/violent film is only at a maximum 3 hours, and can be watched with headphones with little impact on anyone else. The sorts of games we are talking about here are highly interactive multiplayer games, that means in my experience tens of hours, with lots of talking and occasional shouting so everyone knows that they are being played.

In any case my children don't watch 18 films on their own. When we have watched (carefully chosen) 18s with them they have tended to slope off in any case. I do look forward to sharing with them some of the films dh and I have collected, even the disturbing ones because the violence in them (in general) has meaning and purpose, as opposed to being just a bit of fun.

john I think you have a peculiar view of my life and I'm not entirely sure how you arrived at it.

You seem to think, based on God knows what, that my poor beaten down dh is desperate to play GTA and I'm standing there with a big stick refusing to let him over the threshold with it.

He feels the same way I do about GTA. He has plenty of games that he plays, which is quite handy as he has first hand knowledge of some of the more popular, more controversial games and more of an idea what is appropriate for ds1 age group.
However he finds GTA abhorrent and the half naked women and prostitutes and drug deals to be inappropriate.
Funnily enough we share the same values and are in agreement in how we raise our children.
I personally don't play any of these games. And I am not over impressed by a lot of them as I dislike the swearing for the sake of it and gratuitous violence. However I accept dh likes to play CoD and Destiny etc.
We have an 11 year old Ds as well who doesn't play these games. Dh plays at night, upstairs. Ds2 doesn't see them. Ds1 plays upstairs, again ds2 is not involved. The only game that is played downstairs is FIFA
At the end of the day, whilst it may be a personal choice, you either like these games or not, there is content that is unsuitable for children. Which is why they have an older age rating. Therefore ds2, as much as he wants to tell me everyone in his class plays CoD, is not exposed to it and won't be until it is age appropriate.

I haven't imposed a blanket ban on GTA, I have discussed it with ds1 and explained my views and why I think it is inappropriate. The same way we have discussed porn and how it is not an accurate representation of a healthy sexual relationship, and my opinion of the porn industry and the exploitation of the women involved in it.

That's not to say he has to agree with my views. But it opens up discussion and gives him an alternative point of view.
And is why he wouldn't ask if he could play GTA in my house any more than he would ask if he could watch a bit of hardcore porn on the tv downstairs. But he respects my views.

I'm guessing JohnQuig is posting from the viewpoint of being male and late teens/early 20's ??

Almost certainly and sadly that's the only audience game makers think exists.

I have 13&16 year old girls, either they play Lego games aimed at 8-12 year olds or they play 'adult' games that are often violent and invariable Sexist.

Seriously is it that hard to have female playable characters, rather than just scantily dressed ones in cut scenes.

I've read through the entire thread. We got Ds1 (11) an Xbox 360 for Christmas, mainly to play Minecraft. As a 'Pearl Clutcher' who isn't not a gamer, I'm genuinely interested to know what games DS could be playing.

I know he watched GTA videos on YouTube. Clutching my pearls firmly to my ample bosom, I explained that I personally don't think an 18 cert game that promotes violence, especially towards women, is appropriate for an 11 year old.

So baring in mind I have no experience of gaming, can the gamers amongst you recommend games ds can get that are age appropriate and have the driving challenges please?

I haven't played it but The Crew is the big street racing game out now. Look it up for age appropriateness on Common Sense Media. It's online-based so worth bearing in mind if you don't have Live Gold.

Older and cheaper, I thought Need for Speed Hot Pursuit was excellent.

BadRoly, glancing at ds (age 12) xbox games, he has:

FIFA 14 (pegi 3)
loads of lego games - Batman, star wars, Harry Potter, Indiana Jones etc (pegi 7)
Terraria (12),
Eurotruck (3),
Forza Horizon 2 (3),
Sim City (7),
Star Wars Battlefront 2 (12),
Garden Warfare (7),
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (12),
Quantum of SOlace (12),
Planetary Annihilation (7)

Our one transgression is Skate 3, which is a pegi 16 (after long negotiation between ds and dh, and a fair bit of research).

YANBU those games are a curse.

Im quite a few years from that discussion with child, but as a game player myself, some of the single player games are a bit graphic and there are lots of other games which are creative, people can play together as well as all the sports and driving games.

As others have mentioned, online play is 'unrated' as you are relying on the audience, which with COD I found had more sweary, lots of 'you fag', 'your mom' type comments than battlefield which seems a bit more tactical. But by being more serious you will be exposed to probably more abuse if you do silly stuff.

I dont know how things have changed but I did have a 360 and I found the mountain dew fuelled raging tweens almost unbearable on some games though found less when I sold it and moved to a PS3.

People do get worked up over the games and people have done research as such. Though this to me is taken out of context as you can have just as heated response to card/board/outside games where people get mental.

nooka

The fact you would stop something just because your partner didn't like it says it all. My mum wasn't particularly thrilled when my dad took up the saxophone but he hasn't stopped just because she dislikes it - why would he? He's got free will and can do what he wants.

TantrumsandBalloons

Never said any of that. But, basically, if your husband ever did want to play those games, he never could because he knows you'd kick up a fuss based on your misguided feelings.

John there is a massive difference between doing something that your partner finds annoying and irritating, which playing the sax would fall into (good for him though!) and doing something that goes against the very core of your partner's being and principles, which porn and playing GTA fall into for some people.

At the risk of sounding patronising, when you fall massively in love and want to live with someone forever, you will know how important certain things are to your partner, and hopefully you will be so in love that you will be prepared to compromise your own actions to enable that relationship to continue, or you won't be prepared to do that, in which case the relationship will end.

And did you self-censor as a 12 year old?

Interesting that Horizon 2 is a (3), the original Horizon is a (12).

Purely I assume for the cringeworthy sexist crap in the festival car park cut scenes.

The pit girl makes inane remarks and waves her buttock cheeks about in non existent hot pants. yuck.

Even more frustratingly, DD2(13) refuses to see why this pisses me off!

My son was playing gfa when he was 12. He's now 20 still into xbox and is very sweet and gentle.