To ask if anyone is setting up a fb page to discuss Tricky Dicky?

[IAmOnMyBike]

It seems we are not allowed to speak about anything negative elsewhere. Please do not speak badly of Tricky Dicky and co.

Also someone might have screenshots of racist abuse you received so you could refer matter to police

Grays please consider taking the racist abuse further. There are laws in place to deal with precisely that sort of thing. I get that you might not feel like the battle but I do wish you'd consider it.

I was on fb yesterday and ended up in the dad's page and there was a comment from a friend offering help and he replied that the cost was too much to post so would be better pushing the funding page , I just wish I had screenshotted the page,

no one surely need 11.5k to cover things and to keep pushing for more, there's more holes in this story than in a block of Swiss cheese, even if it's honest ect why hasn't Crowe got a or company to help rather than keep causing more damage.

Grays you should ask for a refund. You can give to a charity directly, if you wish.

If he dares to name and shame you, you can count on the backing of mumsnet. As far as I know the person he named was a lady who said she would report him, not someone who asked for a refund though.

Please also consider reporting the racial abuse to the police.

I am pleased with the outcome - Lee & Katie can stay together out there with their baby and not worry about bills etc; RMHC has had some good publicity.

It was something that snowballed very, very quickly and I am relieved that the 'stop' call has been made.
I think naivety had a bigger role to play than deliberate dodginess, and it is a lesson in social media's huge and far reaching impact.

I do think the Tricky Dicky page has gone very unpleasant today, but it served its purpose as we were able to engage with Richard and his friends on the page and via pm to help them see how out of hand things were getting and what legitimate questions people had without being shouted down as 'haterz'.

I wish them all well

I'm glad it appears that things are winding to a close.

I'm quite sure that the parents can 'survive' in NYC on around $16,800 US for the next 2 months (if all goes well that's when baby Dax should be able to come home) considering that their basic lodging and food will cost them little to nothing at RMcD house. There should be plenty left over to maintain their UK home in the meantime.

I just don't think that's what the majority of donors (at least the early ones) thought they were paying for.

I'm sure you can see what I'm saying elsewhere Well no, actually I can't...if you are talking about the fb group, I read a few posts & looked at a few profiles & haven't been back since.

what you seem to be saying is that if an unfortunate event happens in someone's life they are immediate excused from all normal morality or accountability for their actions. Erm..not at all. If you read my posts I have suggested going to the police if you are overly concerned. This level of involvement for someone that none of us know, is ridiculous. My main issue is with starting a group to dissect the fund-raising page & the parents lifestyle.

There is an element of glee in this herd instinct stampeding around fb, then c&p'ing comments here there and everywhere YY, Glee...it's horrible.

I can only imagine that the posters coming on to slate the thread can't have seen the racial abuse and the comments about turning it in to a money spinner. I have seen the abuse, but that doesn't mean that others are allowed to do the same while pretending it is in the best interests of the public!

The FB group I have read is chiefly concerned with working out whether police report or a report to some other body on Monday is most appropriate. It isn't chiefly concerned with that at all...yes, it has been mentioned, but I don't believe for one minute that that is why is was originally set up!

Personally I wouldn't be able to link up MN posters with their FB accounts but I'm pretty sure a lot of the offensive comments are not from MN'ers. Because what? Posters on MN are never offensive? Of course it's hard to match up profiles to MNs, most of them are fake profiles.

If you have genuine concerns report them to the police. Setting up a FB group to slag off another FB group, set up in the name of a premature baby, for what ever reason, is more than a bit yuck. I'm not surprised MN wanted to distance themselves from this. Hear hear!

Well I do think it's wrong to exploit the goodwill of others to personally enrich yourself Well, those who have donated know the situation now, so don't you think it is up to those who have donated to feel exploited or not, not for us to do so on their behalf?

If it doesn't bother you then fine, we are all entitled to express our opinions. I, however, feel very uncomfortable about the deception by the fundraiser. So you have reported it now, yes? That bothered are you by the people donating to these people, you picked up the phone & told the police of your concerns, or are you leaving that to someone else on the fb page?

IMO it's a bit misleading to say that nobody is feeling exploited. No one has said that people aren't feeling exploited. Just that it isn't up to us, a bunch of randomers to feel exploited on their behalf.

The whole thing reeks of jealousy, especially when people assume that everyone who has donated is poor or misinformed etc. Absolutely!

What about the people who donated via the news reports thinking it was for medical bills and have never even seen the Facebook page?

The link to the fb page is at the bottom of the news articles. IF people are daft enough not to check out where their money is going, surely that is their lookout & they are to blame for being so naive?

A bit like you would blame someone who gave their bank details to the Saudi prince who emails them offering them and a million others countless millions that don't exist.

I'm talking about when they were fundraising giving the impression it was for medical bills The news articles stated that they were waiting for a reply from insurance ... if people donated before the outcome was known, I am sorry, but I don't see how they can say they were being exploited. A final decision was NOT posted re insurance. People still wanted to donate. I think it is pretty clear from the outset that insurance was undecided.

just wanting them to be fully aware of what they are spending it on ... If people finally have all the information at their disposal surely that is a good thing both for them and the fundraiser The problem is, is the assumption by many that those donating are too thick & stupid to look into the facts for themselves & need to be protected by the almighty on MN! No one is debating that it shouldn't be clear, and open. We are against those who are donating being assumed too thick to think for themselves. It's insulting!

A closed group on FB with 147 members (all names visible btw ) to alert the public? Exactly! How helpful are they actually being by hiding behind facebook settings? If they were really THAT concerned they would be an open group & linking to themselves on the original page. But no, let's helpfully inform people by keeping our group private. Genius! Idiots, more like.

TheFairyCaravan It was my recollection that a name was posted, if I am wrong, I am happy to apologise. Doesn't make it any better that info was shared as to how to access the fathers account though, and that opinion I will not apologise for.

I don't think those facebook pages are serving any useful purpose now

Agreed.

I think Lee and Katie showed a good deal of sense

They were probably reading this thread

Does anyone know why the actual fund raising page has now disappeared? Missed how much was raised in the end.

The Google cached version of the fundraising page shows £11,890.30 raised on GoGetFunding, from 978 backers. There was a significant sum raised via direct Paypal payments that may be in addition to this (it was never clear whether this sum was added to the GoGetFunding total). The sum raised is therefore at least £11,890.30 and could be nearer £20k.

The most important thing is that the baby seems to be doing well and is likely to continue to do well.

The second most important thing is to recognise that many, many families go through this and the fathers have to go back to work leaving the mum "on her own" in a neonatal unit after two weeks (remember that there is no obligation to pay fathers during paternity leave, even where they are employed). Bliss ran a campaign on this last year. Many babies are cared for in the UK in neonatal units far from the family home (albeit not across an ocean), as concentrating medical expertise in larger hospitals has been proven to improve outcomes. Incidentally, there was a baby born in China to NZ parents at 29 weeks last year (they were in transit at a Beijing airport). The mum had to stay in China and the dad went home to NZ to go back to work before the baby was well enough to come home. The baby did really well and flew home eventually. Yes, it would have been sad for Lee and Katie to have been parted like this, but it is a reality that many parents of premature babies face every day. I recognise that it would be churlish to criticise the parents for seeking support simply because others don't receive it. If people had donated money simply to keep the dad in NY when he would otherwise have had to return to the UK (and that is a genuine "if", because that isn't what the fundraising was billed as), then that is a good cause and people could have made their own minds up.

However, the third most important thing is that this money was raised under dubious pretences. It may be a good cause. But the bottom line is that people donated for one thing (to cover healthcare and US living expenses that are, and always were, covered by insurance) and the money is now being spent on something totally different.

The police will have no interest in this (or will at least take a look and say that no offence has been committed). The other regulators that people may have reported it to will show no interest either.

I don't think the lead fundraiser himself ever made any racist comments, did he? He tolerated them and "lolled" them, but the racist comments were made by others on the site. Pursue them if you wish, but this has little to do with the fundamental issue many had with the fundraising page.

We will never know what happens to this money. There may or may not be a donation to RMH, but no one will ever know or how much. We will never know whether this money is used to pay for nappies, formula, a pram, wallpaper for the nursery, flights (economy or otherwise) or to pay off the parents' car finance. Anyone can speculate, but I am not sure that is helpful.

The baby is doing well and I hope and expect there will be a happy ending. The only sad aspect of this is that people are likely to be sceptical about crowdfunding campaigns of this type in the future, whether or not they are run transparently.

here is the cached page

Thank you iamtheeggman blimey a lot of money was raised then.

A real concern was that on Jan 2 a post went on facebook saying the travel insurance was covering medical bills and then 4 hrs later another post goes up saying the fundraising page was back up and running - the fundraising page still have the incorrect text on it saying that money was required as they did not know if insurance were paying up. Why was the page not updated as that information was unknown when the page was reinstated. There are quotes in the media from Richard who says the money was never for medical bills if that is the case why set up a page saying it is. Any money donated up the point the page was finally updated should have been ring fenced and donated to charity as that money that people donated on the premise it was cover medical bills was no longer needed.

That for me is what raises a doubt in my mind about the whole thing. I am just glad its all come to an end.

Why was the page not updated as that information was unknown when the page was reinstated. - sorry typo in that meant to say that information was KNOWN at the time the page was reinstated.

He also appeared to tell some press that it was still for medical bills after that, including the Guardian. In fact, he didn't appear to admit it was paying out until parts of the press ascertained from other sources that it was.

Richard commented on the official facebook page the following : A full set of accounts is being kept and any money left will be forwarded to the RMF and obviously this will be proved. i welcome any 'investigations'.

So let's hope this is actually true given the number of times things have been said and then backtracked on

I'me really glad that's the case. Particularly as it will allow Katie and Lee to use the money without any hint of wrongdoing or suggestion that it has been misused. Whether that would have been the case if Internet pressure hadn't been applied against him - well I'm dubious.

I'd like to see those 'accounts'. But it's been pretty well established now that the money will be used for 'expenses' and to 'supply Dax with everything' (#4 on Richard's list of where the money is going) so the money may be used for anything from 'panties' for Dad to a top of the line Silver Cross pram with the rest going to 'support' their home back in the UK and little to none left for RMcD house. There's no indication that the parents are going to try to use as little of the money and live in NYC as frugally as possible and use their own credit or savings for their UK costs, nor that anyone who donated is expecting them to do so, either. Oh well, I didn't donate anything so all I can do is give it all the 'side-eye' & do a little bosom hoike.

I think that the biggest shame of this debacle is that, in future, many people may now be unwilling to help other people who may find themselves in dire straits, like families raising funds for medical treatments unavailable or that insurance won't cover. On the other hand, maybe people will demand more transparency or accountability before they donate.

Thankyou ohshitty and fluffymouse. I've reported the racist comments and police have asked for screenshots which I'll send to them tomorrow. Regarding the money I'm just going to leave it, I'm sure Dax will benefit from it in someway so now I've had my say about how I feel about the whole thing I'm happy to let it go.

I'll definitely be donating some money straight to RMH at some point because I hadn't heard of them before and it seems like they do some amazing work. Well deserved.

It's maddening that people can be so deceitful. IMO it's just another example of people who don't think society's rules apply to them and that the world owes them. Sad, really. I'd be disgusted if someone I knew did this.

And yes, even though I donate regularly to RMH, I will donate some extra this month, as I imagine those parents will not keep any significant money back for them - if they even donate any to them at all. Indefensible.

Different, You seem to have this fixed idea in your head of the 'type' of person who raised any objection, their motivations and their desired outcomes - not one of your assumptions is correct in my case, or (I would expect) many others like me.
I am fucked off, quite frankly, with the superiority complex you seem to have re the whole thing and tbh you seem to be as over invested in the people on this thread who wanted to discuss a news item as you are accusing others of being.

I came to the first thread because it was in active convos, followed the link to the news report, then followed that to the fb page; I was horrified at the racism that was in almost every post at that point - (I am not easily shocked, but was literally open mouthed at the spite - 'monkey fuckers', 'Ebola spreading asylum seekers', wash your dirty face coon', suicide bombing terrorist' etc etc) and through it all 'Dax' was lol-ing and calling people 'retards'.

During the discussion on the first thread, it became clear that some things were a bit 'off' - friends of the couple discussing how if they 'played it right' they could 'string it out' and 'make money for the future'; discussing how it was a shame Max Clifford was inside or he could have got them fees from the interviews they were currently 'giving away for free'.

Richard was called 'Tricky Dicky' on the thread as a tongue in cheek thing, due to his continually refusing to answer perfectly reasonable questions on the fb page about what the money was for (medical or general funds) and whether or not the insurance company had made a decision.

I saw all of the above, the racism, the nastiness and the (what seemed to be) sliperiness of Richard.
The thread quickly filled up, a second thread was started then both were pulled - hence, a fb page was started to continue uncensored.

I used and viewed the page as a way to engage with Richard's friends with no shouting down or abuse, and also PMd Richard as by this point I had come to the conclusion that Richard was not a twat or dirty scammer - just a normal guy who had tried to help his friends and got caught up in the drama and ended up in a situation that was running away from him.

My concern was not for the people who had donated (they knew by that point what they were donating to/for), my concern was for Richard, his friends, and Lee/Katie/Dax and their families.
I didn't want them being hurt or wrongly maligned when the inevitable backlash happened (which it would have if the fund had kept going long after £10k+ imo).

I am very, very pleased that they stopped the fundraising, have a good amount of cash to mean they have no worries at all whilst out there and when back home, that they did the public thank you message, and that other charities will now benefit. Mostly I am pleased that they and Dax are well and that they have bowed out on a high.

The fb page started off the back of this thread started to become more personal and a bit much yesterday, so I removed myself from it - but I am still mightily fucked off that posters are determined to label every one of us who took an active interest in this as some sort of vigilantes.
Not in my fucking name, thank you very much.

Sorry for the mammoth rant, but I wanted to get another side of things out there.

You seem to have this fixed idea in your head of the 'type' of person who raised any objection, their motivations and their desired outcomes - not one of your assumptions is correct in my case,

I haven't made any assumptions at all about the 'type' of person who have made objections.

Except that they are bitching about it & not doing anything about it...

But OK!