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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who IBU? Very obese man on train taking up seat.

187 replies

StackladysMorphicResonator · 02/01/2015 20:42

Please settle a pub argument - we have been discussing who IBU for nearly an hour!

I went on a 2h30 train ride today. An extremely obese gentleman sat down next to me about five minutes into the journey. The middle arm rest was down, but his bulk was unfortunately spilling both under and over it. He then opened up a broadsheet newspaper, causing his arm to sit about 2 inches from my nose, and read it throughout the journey, causing his arm to be either right in front of me or squashing against my shoulder every time he turned a page.

I sat for the entire journey silently fuming, but didn't say anything to him as I didn't want to embarrass him in public. However, I had a pretty miserable journey and moaned about it to friends in the pub this evening.

The majority opinion here is that I WBU by not asking him to keep his elbows to himself, and I've only got myself to blame for my uncomfortable journey. My reasons for not asking him to butt out of my space is that I thought it would be really embarrassing for him, and due to his size he couldn't help it - of the people present, the majority opinion is that he should have purchased two seats if he couldn't fit into one seat, and certainly shouldn't have been reading something that caused him to practically elbow me in the nose every time he turned a page, and I was being a massive wuss by not saying anything.

So, wise denizens of AIBU: was I BU (and a wuss) by fuming in silence, and if so, what should I have done?

OP posts:
SoDiana · 04/01/2015 16:46

I'd have huffed, puffed, snorted, sighed and 'accidentally' elbowed him. Passive aggressive all the way. Blush

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 04/01/2015 16:49

Id have sat quietly as I didn't want the man to feel embarrassed about his size and I have basic manners. We are all different.

EmpressOfJurisfiction · 04/01/2015 16:53

It's not the size though Fanjo, it's the broadsheet. I'm small and normally I'd either put up with it or move, but waving the paper in front of the OP's nose was just rude.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 04/01/2015 16:54

Noone should read a broadsheet in someone's face. But most of the nasty comments are about his size.

Pipbin · 04/01/2015 17:05

I agree Mintyy Joanne said far worse things than Edna. Joanna might as well have said 'people with depression piss me off, why don't they cheer up' or 'people with bulimia piss me off, why don't they just eat stuff?'
So what did Edna get deleted?

UptheChimney · 04/01/2015 17:48

I didn't want the man to feel embarrassed about his size and I have basic manners

But Fanjo the point is, that the man in question didn't have basic manners. He invasded the OP's space, first with his body, and then with his newspaper. He behave as though she weren't completely human, and had no right to a comfortable journey.

I really don't think you can be holier than thou about tolerating his behaviour: his behaviour was rude.

And that goes back to my earlier question -- one I think about a lot in these situations. How is it that someone reacting to another person's rudeness & lack of consideration (because I think "basic manners" are about considering others as equal to oneself) is the one criticised as rude, rather than the impolite, inconsiderate person who behaved badly in the first place?

I've had this when I've asked people not to use their phones in the Quiet Zone of a train: they behave as if I'm the rude one.

It puzzles me ...

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 04/01/2015 17:50

He invaded her space with his body? No she sat beside him and his body is large.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 04/01/2015 17:52

Sorry. He sat beside her. He happens to be large. He sat on the seat. He didn't magically grow his body big just so he could squash her. He sat beside her and he committed the MN cardinal sin of being obese.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 04/01/2015 17:53

Bit different from "invading her space with his body and behaving as if she was not human". Ridiculous. He sat on the bloody seat.

UptheChimney · 04/01/2015 18:02

From the origial post:

The middle arm rest was down, but his bulk was unfortunately spilling both under and over it. He then opened up a broadsheet newspaper, causing his arm to sit about 2 inches from my nose, and read it throughout the journey, causing his arm to be either right in front of me or squashing against my shoulder every time he turned a page

I think that describes pretty invasive behaviour. He may have been obsese, but even very large people can sit so that they don't encroach on the seat next to them, if they have any 'basic manners'. He could have oriented himself towards the aisle side of his seat. He could have controlled his arm & shoulder movements.

lastnightiwenttomanderley · 04/01/2015 18:18

I'm 5' and a size 6. Travel on officially the busiest train in the country every day smug.

Broadsheet readers are rude and inconsiderate. I just ask them to stop it. As a smaller person I am also a prime person to sit next to. This means I always sit on the aisle. Yes, I may have a partially unsupported backside but, like in defensive driving, I have my escape route. Nothing more claustrophobic than being wedged in by bigger people.

Worst I've ever had though was on a reasonably quiet train when man opposite (no table) put his elbows on his knees and leant forward. The top of his scalp was 6" from my face. He then looked affronted when I asked if he could sit back; there was nobody sat next to him either so not a shoulder space issue.

UptheChimney · 04/01/2015 18:24

Come to think of it, I might have been tempted to do a lot of shoulder rolling, and arm stretching on that journey. Sore back, you see. Only relieved by lots of upper body movement and arm movement. Oops, sorry did your arm in my face get hit? Sorry, maybe you shouldn't have your arm across my face.

Ev1lEdna · 04/01/2015 19:09

I think I was deleted because I called her a name.

The rest of my post was a parody of her own 'fat people piss me off' whining but substituting the idea of a stupid or ignorant person for the fat person and applying her own logic to the ease of being a nicer person.

Oh, and despite being deleted I am not remotely sorry for my post.

I do agree that the man on the train should have been far more aware of the personal space of the person beside him.

kormachameleon · 05/01/2015 02:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JapaneseMargaret · 05/01/2015 02:30

I'm another silent seether.

My current gripe is when out running, and others runners coming towards you resolutely do not keep to the left, and force you to go around them.

It's always men.

Bulbasaur · 05/01/2015 02:37

I hate it when people invade past the arm rest, weight has nothing to do with it. It's always men that do it too, DH never has this problem. Angry

If I had the option, I'd just change seats. But for places like airlines where you're stuck next to each other for the next few hours I get a bit aggressive assertive and push their arm/leg right back into their space. Or if it looks more unintentional than deliberately not giving a shit, I just gently push it back with a disarming smile and they get the hint. It's my seat, I paid for it, I expect every square inch of it to be occupied by me and me alone.

Obviously, there's exceptions for tall men with long legs who truly can't help it, but everyone else can keep their arms in their own space.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 05/01/2015 08:28

Well obese people with big bodies truly can't help it either. Whatever you think about the reasons behind obesity they can't lose stones before getting on public transport

Saki5000 · 05/01/2015 09:24

Although he couldn't help invade some of your space under the arm rest he should have kept his arms in. I would have told him to do that if it was a long journey.
It doesn't sound as if this man required two seats but I think that if someone is exceptionally large then they do need to pay for more space.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 05/01/2015 09:35

So should tall people pay for more too? People will say no. Because of the general attitude towards obese people

FrozenAteMyDaughter · 05/01/2015 11:02

So should tall people pay for more too? People will say no. Because of the general attitude towards obese people

This

And also, as people have already pointed out, this is only really an issue if a train is crowded as otherwise there will be a choice of seats for someone who wants to avoid sitting next to an obese person. Where a train is crowded, someone who has paid for two seats (where that is even an option) will not be able to hold onto the second seat (without making their fellow travellers pretty fed up) as others will expect to sit in it (or in what is left over of it) in order to avoid standing up. So it is a lose-lose situation for an obese person.

Public transport is uncomfortable and unpleasant in all sorts of ways, both related and unrelated to the people who travel on it, and frankly, all those moaning on here about obese people just need to get over it. How many times does this happen to you really? And how much of a problem is it in the scheme of things?

CrazyTights · 05/01/2015 14:48

Why should you pay more if you are tall? You are not encroaching on the space of the person next to you and you just tuck your legs back under the seat or book an aisle seat so you can stretch them out a bit. I'm nigh on 6 foot and if I paid extra on a bus I still couldn't have a seat with enough leg room. On a plane I can do this, and usually do - so I do pay more, though through choice.

CrazyTights · 05/01/2015 14:50

My current gripe is when out running, and others runners coming towards you resolutely do not keep to the left, and force you to go around them.

Do they move at all or just stay put? My sister is left handed and she always moves to the left whereas most people move to the right and so ends up having a little dance with them. She reckons you can always tell if somebody is right or left handed because of which side they move to but it could be a load of rubbish

LadySybilLikesSloeGin · 05/01/2015 14:59

I'm small, does that mean I get to pay less then?

Bulbasaur · 05/01/2015 15:17

Well obese people with big bodies truly can't help it either. Whatever you think about the reasons behind obesity they can't lose stones before getting on public transport

Tall people only take up extra leg room in front of their seat, and sometimes the seats are so close they really have no choice but to splay their legs out. They can still take their arms and keep them on their chest, lap, or even the armrest so long as it doesn't invade. There's not really another option for tall people. If there was an option for seats with more leg room for tall people I'd be saying they had to pay for those ones and sit there.

Fat people that are that obese take up two actual seats. If you're going to take up two seats sideways, you need to pay for them, and that is an option that is offered. I can move my legs over a bit. I'm not spending the entire journey leaned to the side of my seat that I am entitled to having and putting strain on my back for a few hours just so I don't have to touch them. They can stay in their own space or pay for two seats.

LadySybilLikesSloeGin · 05/01/2015 15:25

It would be unfair for them to charge a larger person double and there will always be one person who will sit next to them anyway. They do need to charge people who put bags on seats double though Wink

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