To think that kids from broken homes can be fine and happy and lead normal lives?

[westielover]

Wondering if I can get some accounts from others on whether I'm mad to expect this to be possible. I have a DD with my ex but he and I split up when she was two so she knows no difference and is 9 now. She's totally cool with having two homes and is very close to her dad and I and our respective new spouses.

My dsd is nearly 16 and has been my step daughter since she was 9 (parents split at 7) She is still incredibly angry about it and feels like her life is completely ruined and she will never be happy. She feels it destroyed her life and any hope she could have of being "normal". She is very angry at my dh and tells him often.

There was nothing dodgy about the break up. He left her, no affairs or anything, maintenance always paid. 50/50 contact for the first three years until her apparently complete and utter hatred of him and what he did when he "tore her family apart" finally got the better of them having a relationship. They now see each other once a week or sometimes less, for about an hour and he struggles to get anywhere with her without trawling through the ins and outs of how he has destroyed her life.

I don't want to drip feed so I'll say now that there is a lot of animosity from mum who also has never accepted what happened. But rather than go in to all of that I'd like to hear if anyone has experience of children of divorce kind of grieving the lost of their family unit, then moving on to become happy and stable people... dsd seems to believe dh and I are mental for even suggesting that she could move past it and be content with "her lot". He has suggested counselling/ family therapy/ talking to older relatives etc. to help her move on but she thinks it's pointless because "all children of divorce are broken people". Divorce is so common now, I can't believe such a huge proportion of the population are walking around seething with rage about their parent's divorce. Maybe she still needs more time.

I get that it's how she feels and I can't minimize that - what works for one won't work for another, but maybe someone could shed some light on how to get her to see her life doesn't need to be like this.

Divorcing parents seem to be expected to be experts in psychology - as well as holding down a job, running a home, dealing with tricky finances - they are human after all. Many DPs cock things up, eg treating children differently etc. If it's considered selfishness with contempt for the feelings of your DCs - so be it. We are only human.

It's possible that she's not as angry generally as she is when she's with her father and step mother. That could be like a combination of an outlet and also, a matter of pride, like she decided a while back not to let them have the privilege of her good company and she's not going to back down now goddammit

I think it could be a lot of teenage angst mixed in with some sadness, regrets and disappointment.

Maybe the fact she is unhappy makes your and DH's attitude toward her anxious and edgy instead of spontaneously happy to see her when she appears. Maybe overplay the pleasure you get out of spending time with her, boost her ego. It's lovely for anyone if the other person looks genuinely pleased to see them. Can DH foster a more upbeat manner and also the happy and proud look of a doting DP (maybe he does already) which is often the case as DCs mature into late teens.

Browers. It must be lovely to live in a world where everything is so simple. I have been living this for eight years now and I've said time and time again that he has listened to her and continues to. She won't even see me so I am not able to "listen" any more.
I've agreed that maybe it's just time and continuing with more of the same. Maybe it is. But when you've been doing the same thing for so many years is it so strange to wonder if there may be something else to try... Or that maybe it's all hopeless? Maybe you'd manage nine, or ten, or countless years before you arrived at that conclusion if you were in this position. Maybe you wouldn't last two.

Badger- I think that's a really wonderful way to look at it. I haven't really thought about what she thinks is wrong with her life that would be right if it weren't for the divorce. I mean, I can imagine a few things she may say but I think it could get her talking off the beaten track a bit, and away from the same things she always gets on to. That could be positive for her. Thanks so much for that.

I divorced when both my children were under 2, so they know no difference. They still have a relationship with their Dad, its a bit sporadic, he isn't great at the day to day stuff and lives overseas.
They are fine,(teens now) really fine ,its strange when you bring up kids by yourself that the perception always is ,of damage , being broken. They aren't , they actually seem very sorted, am very aware of things as serious history of mental illness in my family.
I do know staying in that marriage of awful emotional abuse would have broken us all, my parting words to my exh were you have to go, my children cannot grow up in this.

You and I seem be reading Badger's advice differently.

She said Maybe she needs to hear her dad say "yes, what I did really wrecked things for you in ways that I didn't foresee - what can I do now to try to fix that, because I love you and never wanted to make you unhappy?"

Is he able to say that? And mean it? And not give her the impression that she should just be focusing on the 'positive' now?

Because your response to Badger's post is I haven't really thought about what she thinks is wrong with her life that would be right if it weren't for the divorce. I mean, I can imagine a few things she may say but I think it could get her talking off the beaten track a bit, and away from the same things she always gets on to.

That last bit is particularly verging on contempt, or that is how you seem to come across to me. I am sorry if that is not what you meant to convey, but if I can feel exasperation and lack of compassion, I bet she can too.

Spero, as I've said, she will not see me. I can't listen to her. He sits and listens to her for about two hours a week which is what she allows him now. No ones ever told her she can't feel the way she does. We've all suggested she sees a therapist for her on going anger and although sadly I think you're right that she may have read this as a request to "sort herself out so she wasn't a problem for us", I challenge any parent to not suggest it as a course of action when faced with such an unhappy child. Lots of children are in therapy, 1000s, do they come up with this idea all by themselves or do their parents suggest it to them?

I think the poster (I'm sorry on iPhone and now can't see your name) who says about parents being expected to be psychologists has it spot on actually. People can be very unforgiving and as I've said a few times - hindsight is great! I suppose when it's something as serious as a child's happiness these mistakes are huge, but still, no one sets out to do the wrong thing.
I think also yes, Dh's demeanour is pretty edgy now, and towards the end of my relationship with her mine probably was too. You're always waiting for an outburst, or something to be thrown, or something inappropriate to be said in front of the little one. He definitely tries "doting dad", and to be fair despite everything his face does light up when she walks in the room. But I will add that into the conversation when we speak about him asking her what about her life would be different/ better without the divorce. It'll be a lot to remember for one meeting

Maybe overplay the pleasure you get out of spending time with her, boost her ego

Sorry to suggest that if she refuses to see you, obviously not going to make a whit of difference.

Not talking to you is a way of getting at you and especially her DF as it affects him most. Very difficult for a teenager to then realize that thy are being unfair and to say 'ooops, I've spent the last x years being a little bitch but now I'm going to be nice' - think I would struggle with that myself as you would so lose face.

In your shoes I would prob keep smiling, not let on that she upsets you, be and let people see you are happy regardless. It is easier for the DD to then change to a nicer person. If it's obvious you are deeply upset by her behavior she can't move on without apologizing. But if you apparently aren't distressed by it she can change to being nicer without guilt, so it's more likely to happen (DCs change hugely at 17 to 19, turn into near adults with their own lives - plod on and keep smiling would be my advice).

Well for a start it isn't me who will be there saying it. So it is more about whether he will sound convincing and if he'll mean it and yes, I think he will. I don't think if be at all convincing because in far too in edge now around her. There is no "contempt". I think more it's a feeling of deflation, of having lived something so many times that always has a negative outcome and feeling reluctant to come at it tail wagging expecting for the best only to have him walk back through the door looking like he's been to war again.
He isn't like that with her, he tries. Like I say, his face involuntarily lights up when she walks in the room. But he's edgy and uncomfortable, probably more so in her eyes than anyone else's. It's not right, no. But we get conditioned don't we.

I do think it'll be good to get her off the beaten track a bit and talking about it in a different way. I don't think it does anyone any good to have the same angry conversation over and over. Well... I say conversation, it's one sided.
I'm no professional but CBT is all about breaking patterns of thinking isn't it? I think it's pretty well accepted as a positive thing for the person who is suffering and in my case if that person benefits then the result is not only that she can maybe be happier but also my husband, my daughter and myself can also be happy. There are four of us in this family and I know that will be read as that I don't think she's important but I do. I care for her very much. But not to the neglect of everyone else.

Thanks moniker. DH thought for a while that I was expecting an apology from dsd after the last event and was quite surprised when I said I wasn't. I remember being a teen (and a reflectively "normal" one) and sorry was not in my vocabulary!
I think it is to get at DH that she doesn't speak to me. I think by rejecting me she is making his wish for happiness impossible. For example he can't have a Christmas Day with both his wife, and his daughter. I also think she feels very disloyal to her mum to be around me and to be friendly.

Being friends with her DM would off foot her regarding feeling disloyal.
Dont' know if that is a possibility.

Sadly not Moniker. That was my intention from the beginning and of course DH wanted to be friends/ civil. But she is incredibly volatile and it is impossible. He's had to go no contact completely now due to abuse.

I'm sure it is possible for a child who's parents split up can have a happy life. But I do strongly feel that it needs a lot of work from the parents. A lot of parents feel that once they are happy, so will the children, which isn't always the case.

Speaking from my own childhood,my parents split up when I was five and went on to have a very nasty divorce that wasn't finalized until 10 years later. This has affected me more in later years, and as a PP said I don't think I will ever "get over" the repercussions. Major events, weddings, graduations etc are always very fraught as the two families don't get along (which usually means that one side cannot be invited) Parents may also expect children to be "loyal" to them rather than the other one which can be disastrous.

I thought this was quite interesting
time.com/3636734/communicate-with-irrational-people/

This is the key phrase
Listening isn’t just listening. It’s letting the other person know you’re listening.

Thanks that's reassuring as exactly what both of us have always done.

OP I wonder if you could look at your DSD's anger towards you and your DH as a good thing. In that she obviously feels safe enough with you both to be able to express her true feelings. These 2 hours with her father might be the only space in her life where she can say what she feels without having to put on an act, or be brave or pretend that she is coping. In essence, that might be a form of therapy for her, even if it is difficult for her dad.

I'm extrapolating from your threads that it doesn't sound like she can do this with her mother without some kind of fall back.

My ex and I have been separated for 6 years now and I am the primary carer. I have sometimes felt really frustrated that I seem to get the worst of the behaviour at times. And yet I can see now that it's because they have consistent love and attention that they are safely able to be themselves, good and bad, with me.

My parents split when I was 12 and my mother was pregnant within a month to our new stepfather. I was invisible from that moment on except for when I dared to show any negative emotions. Needless to say it was traumatic yet I swallowed it all down and outwardly behaved like the model teenager. My adult life has been hugely affected by the whole thing, but especially of how my mother treated me.

I think you just need to be patient and understand that your DSD is doing everything she can to deal with a difficult time in her life. Even if she won't speak to you and is constantly angry at your DH, she needs to be shown that she is loved and that she matters. You are the grown ups. Show her that you love her and be willing to keep doing this for as long as it takes.

Does your SD have any interests, hobbies or a social life? It sounds like she doesn't actually have much else to occupy herself other than her own misery (just like my DH's children whereas my DC were far busier as teens with part-time jobs, loads of friends and hobbies).

My DHs children also cut contact with me during their teens and I can't say I missed the nastiness, in fact it was quite a relief to not see them!

She doesn't ketchup. Well, she has friends but they just hang around, they don't have interests or hobbies. She spends the majority of time with her mum or babysitting her younger sibling

She spends the majority of time with her mum or babysitting her younger sibling

Oh, dear.

The Brene Brown talk on this Ted playlist - 'the power of vulnerability' is good. Might be of interest to your husband and your step daughter.

www.ted.com/playlists/210/talks_to_watch_when_every_conc

Your DSd is bitter because her mother is

^. This

westielover - just to clarify, it sounds like you read my advice as I intended it, and you don't sound contemptuous to me, just like someone trying to do their best in a very difficult situation.

Even if she won't see you, it's worth keeping on extending the invitations (via her dad that is), as then if she does change her mind, she doesn't have to lose face by asking for an invite. Things like sunday lunches or day trips, etc. Also, is she on any social media sites that you or her dad could connect with her on? Even if it's just her dad (or you too) texting her when he sees something nice that made him think of her: "saw a picture of that singer you like, and it made me think of you - love you" - that type of thing.

I know you've said she won't consider therapy for herself, but would she consider family therapy for her dad and her together? She might be able to accept something that is about what she sees as the issue (ie her dad's actions) more easily than something that is focused entirely on her. Best wishes with it all.

Thanks badger. You've been a life line

To answer the original question - it is possible. But it relies on bother parents co-parenting and not rubbishing the other at every opportunity. It sounds as if (and now I am extrapolating wildly) her mother has not been able to move on and lays all her troubles at his door. She cannot see this or if she does cannot acknowledge it so blames her father.

Glad to help!

'Maybe some of us are built to deal with things, others a fortunate to have supportive friends that get you through. I've never been a dwelller or a woe is me and as others have said, it can be hard when someone won't take the help offered to them to help them deal with things. It's as though they enjoy the misery. I know that's not true but you know what I mean.'

See as much as you say throughout the thread that you live and support her there are loads of little clues that inside you really believe its just her shitty attitude or lack of willingness to try, rather than the fact that when your father/mother, whom you adore, is suddenly not there half of the time. And that not only do you need to 'get over' that and process it, andcope with your parents and THEIR processing of it, but also you have to cope with thembringing other people into your lives, whichmeans you get even LESS of them. Sometimes you dont like those people, but you have to pretend to because suddenly your parent is happy again and they havent been, for a whole year. You have to do thid with all the emotional respurces and ability to rationalise of a seven year old. And if you dont manage it, and it fucks you up, its because you 'enjoy the misery.'
You evidently have no idea what this girl went through, and are happy to place the ball in her court so that you and your dh (and very possibly her dm and partner) can move on without guilt.
That poor girl.

Sorry for crap typing, am in bath.