To think that kids from broken homes can be fine and happy and lead normal lives?

[westielover]

Wondering if I can get some accounts from others on whether I'm mad to expect this to be possible. I have a DD with my ex but he and I split up when she was two so she knows no difference and is 9 now. She's totally cool with having two homes and is very close to her dad and I and our respective new spouses.

My dsd is nearly 16 and has been my step daughter since she was 9 (parents split at 7) She is still incredibly angry about it and feels like her life is completely ruined and she will never be happy. She feels it destroyed her life and any hope she could have of being "normal". She is very angry at my dh and tells him often.

There was nothing dodgy about the break up. He left her, no affairs or anything, maintenance always paid. 50/50 contact for the first three years until her apparently complete and utter hatred of him and what he did when he "tore her family apart" finally got the better of them having a relationship. They now see each other once a week or sometimes less, for about an hour and he struggles to get anywhere with her without trawling through the ins and outs of how he has destroyed her life.

I don't want to drip feed so I'll say now that there is a lot of animosity from mum who also has never accepted what happened. But rather than go in to all of that I'd like to hear if anyone has experience of children of divorce kind of grieving the lost of their family unit, then moving on to become happy and stable people... dsd seems to believe dh and I are mental for even suggesting that she could move past it and be content with "her lot". He has suggested counselling/ family therapy/ talking to older relatives etc. to help her move on but she thinks it's pointless because "all children of divorce are broken people". Divorce is so common now, I can't believe such a huge proportion of the population are walking around seething with rage about their parent's divorce. Maybe she still needs more time.

I get that it's how she feels and I can't minimize that - what works for one won't work for another, but maybe someone could shed some light on how to get her to see her life doesn't need to be like this.

The present general understanding is that unhappy marriages should end with as little acrimony as possible.

As far as the OP's DH is concerned he followed this general rule.

It's a bit hard to string him up for what, on this thread, is deemed unfair treatment of the DD.

Possibly the bitterness of the DM might be the cause of the DSD not moving on from the separation. It might have little to do with the DH's behavior.

Or it might be the personality of the DD.

The DD might meet someone and fall madly in love next week and the bitterness over the perceived misdemeanors of her DPs might be forgotten overnight.

Fingers crossed that she moves on soon.

I think what the opinions have shown is that it is possible to have a happy life, but not so much if it's acrimonious. It's sad it had to be acrimonious in this instance as it does seem to have made her very angry and unhappy.

So it's not (as she claims) the simple fact that he divorced her mum that has "ruined her life" rather, the events and behaviours that came after.

I keep coming back to the "year later" thing because I genuinely don't believe of all the experiences she went through that it was this that was the factor in her being mad. It's not something she's ever raised. It is most likely a part of a huge puzzle but not the thing that has crippled her ability to get past the divorce.

I think it's fine to leave an unhappy marriage. But so often after a separation the children take the lions share of the upheaval. They are the ones who have to grow up in two homes, why can't the parents rotate 50/50? The children have no say over who is brought into their lives. New partners, step parents, step siblings and half siblings. It seems to be the norm that adults have the right to move on ( which I do agree with) but that the children have to do all the adapting. Is it any wonder that some children don't cope with massive changes to lives where the feel completely out of control and vulnerable?

It's good that it has worked out for your dd but it's not your dsd's fault that she feels the way she does.

The 'all children of divorce are broken people' sounds like it came from DSDs mother rather than being her own thoughts. If something is said often enough perhaps you start to believe it.

I agree with the idea that DSD needs to start looking forward to the future. Whatever has happened is in the past and your DSD needs to start concentrating on the present and future.

My DC did very well after my divorce as my ex and I remained amicable and were determined that our DC wouldn't suffer. They are now happy well rounded adults with successful, professional careers and good long term relationships. My DHs DC have both struggled with relationships as adults because of their mother's bitterness and her inability to move on from the divorce (even though it was her who had an affair which ended the marriage!) so I've seen both extremes of behaviour.

OP your dsd sounds a lot like mine but mines a bit older

I don't know the answers, I hope she's happy again one day, but she's just so bitter

Weird thing is her mums moved on too, ages ago, she's happy and been with her new dh for years but for some reason it's not ok with dsd that her dad has done the same

I too have a ds from previous marriage and I think his dad's great, I like his new partner and we all get on. and ds is happy with the status quo although tbf it's all he's known as he was a baby when I left his dad, so I think that makes a difference at what age the parents split up

You can understand this as an adult so you are expecting DSD to as well. And she can't because she is a 16 year old with a frightened 7 year old inside. My parents didn't divorce but I did have rough teenage years, just because really! I would throw (metaphorically) all kinds at my mum and dad as I was unhappy with myself.
You and your DH wanting this to be fixed will not fix this. your DSD has to come to it in her own time and in the meantime you need to be there unconditionally, so she feels safe. Feeling safe may mean she expresses her anger more to you but that is better than turning it in on herself.
To actually answer your OP, yes I have many friends who had divorced parents who now have happy successful lives but we are mid 30s not 16. She has so much life left, it has not been ruined, it can be mended but patience is needed. Hang in there.

So it's not (as she claims) the simple fact that he divorced her mum that has "ruined her life" rather, the events and behaviours that came after.

But to her mind, it probably is the simple fact he divorced her mum which has ruined her life. If he hadn't, the rest could not have followed. It is a concept which is both somewhat irrational yet completely rational in its simplicity. Her claim is valid.

Anyone from a traumatic childhood can go on to live a full and happy life.

But right now, she's still immersed in the situation with no respite. You can't expect a child to have an adult understanding of a situation. Everyone in this situation so far has had control over her entire living situation, the divorce, and the new people coming into their lives except for her. She's just sort of stuck going along for the ride whether she likes it or not. She may not be happy until she moves out or goes away to uni and gets a breath of fresh air and has an actual say in how she lives her life.

I came from a dysfunctional home, and I didn't find happiness until I moved out and got away from the whole mess. Now I get along fine with my parents, and we get along best in short bursts.

She's still a teen, and every teenager's life is "ruined" by something or another. They're a bit dramatic like that. Most come out the other end relatively ok. As she gets older and a bit more mature she'll start seeing the divorce through adult's eyes and hopefully come to terms with it.

Ketchup that's great that your kids have been able to manage things well and that you and your ex were adult enough to let that happen.

I think that's a good point about how although it wasn't the problem as such, it was the catalyst and so that's why she blames that one fact, and therefore DH. And why she can't let go.

I really do think that counselling could help her pick that apart but there's no point in thinking about that as I have no control. As I say, I think I have to pin all my hopes on "time",

There has been a fair bit of research on the effect of divorce on children. A study that came out last year I think said that the age that parents split was critical to the hurt felt by the child. Between I think 7 and 12 were considered potentially the most difficult. I made a note of it as it rings true with our experience. One sibling harbours a lot of unresolved issues a bit like the DSD where a house and school move happened with a complete change of friends and familiar things. Whereas those who coped better were much younger with no real memories of family life.

With regard to the DSD saying that her mum has since been correct to leave her subsequent unhappy marriage (using the phrases that her own dad has used to justify himself) and telling people that her younger half-brother needs to just get over it....two points

1. that is not her two parents who have been her whole world up to that point breaking up suddenly, that is her mum getting shot of a 'new' partner who joined in after The Split and may have been a rival for attention/was not the only new partner her mum had had since the original dad.
2. if she feels very hard done by and not listened to about getting hurt by the first divorce because everyone has spent years telling her to shut up and get over it, it is totally normal that she will now end up being Head Police on her step-brother, as she will absolutely not want him to be given any of the sympathy/attention/understanding that she feels that she has been denied on an ongoing basis herself, as that would feel hugely unfair and favouriting him over her.

(sorry, pressed enter too soon)
Using the self-justifying phrases which have been used against her, to say why the second divorce is therefore also 'OK' and the brother should not get any attention from it, probably feels as if she is making a hard-earned point about how inappropriate those platitudes were to say to her. She is baiting her mum and dad to stand up for him - if anybody dares to challenge her or object that she is being harsh to her step-brother, then she can say "Seeeee!!!! That is how I feel when you do that to me!!" "I'm not being harsh, I'm behaving exactly like you do" etc etc.

It's possible that she's not as angry generally as she is when she's with her father and step mother. That could be like a combination of an outlet and also, a matter of pride, like she decided a while back not to let them have the privilege of her good company and she's not going to back down now goddammit............

Yes best I expect that's it. But no one will challenge it because this time it's her mum's actions and therefore they are completely valid. So, sadder still, it will just be "yes, dd, you're right, mummy had to do this for her own happiness"
A further head fuck I'm sure.

Skil it's worth thinking about. But I have to say that the self harm, overdoses and shoplifting have all been when not in our care. And she's had slapping fights with mum, so I don't know... I think she's pretty angry all the time

Wow, ok, I was wrong. I had missed those details.

westielover - just wondering if your DH has asked his daughter what she would like him to do about the situation? He'd have to phrase it carefully so it doesn't sound like "so what do you want me to do about it eh?!", but I just wondered if he had actually asked her what would help her now. Does she want to just be listened to, does she want to be reassured that her life isn't ruined, does she want him to invite her over every sunday for tea, etc.

Maybe she needs to hear her dad say "yes, what I did really wrecked things for you in ways that I didn't foresee - what can I do now to try to fix that, because I love you and never wanted to make you unhappy?"

If it's any comfort, I have friends whose parents have divorced and it didn't ruin their lives, so it's not automatic that divorce = ruined lives. It must be hard for the daughter to believe otherwise though, if her mum is constantly telling her that their lives were ruined by the divorce.

Thank you whosebadger. Ever so much.
I've read that through several times now and I think I will pass it on to him. I really don't think he's asked that... Probably out of fear of sounding like "so what do you want me to do, eh?" As you mention. But done well, it could work.

I think he'll be worried that what she'll say is that she wants him to apologise to her mum and to rekindle a friendship with her. This can't happen as mum has been incredibly abusive... Like, can't tolerate kind of abusive, towards all of us and there is no chance of civility even though there have been several attempts. So it could backfire as in - what she asks for may not be possible. But i think worth a shot.

Op, i think you may be getting mixed up between 'listening' and 'agreeing with'.

People need to know they have been heard. he doesn't have to do what she 'wants' - she may not know what she wants. But he does have to listen and try to understand. He doesn't necessarily have to agree with her. But he shouldn't try to rationalise away what she is feeling or suggest that she is somehow to blame for not being able to 'move on'.

I think that works in an amateur psych way but when he says "what do you need from me, how can I make this better for you?" She will not want to be listened to and understood, she will have the expectation that he is in some way about to entertain the idea of following through what she asks. There are a million things she may come out with that he would be able to do. Im just saying that from my experience, I know what she'll say/ ask and that he won't be able to do that thing. Because he's done it several times before and its just not it.
But as I say, he's never asked in the way the poster has suggested and I think it is a great idea. It's one of those super basic/ obvious things that you need someone from outside to suggest.

Glad to help! Best wishes to him when he asks - his daughter may not even know what she wants, but it might get her thinking. If she asks for the impossible, he can explain why he thinks it wouldn't work (eg, we tried before and it upset your mum more than when we weren't friends), and suggest things that might work that are similar. Eg, "I don't think ex and I would be compatible as friends, but we don't need to be friends with each other for you to be friends with both of us". Try to get at what she wants from them being friends - eg if it's mum not ranting on and on, he can show that trying to be friends didn't fix that, but if what she wants it to achieve it's her not feeling guilty, then he can reassure her she doesn't need to. Poor kid probably feels trapped in the middle and like she's being disloyal even seeing her dad if mum is still so angry with him.

Also, it's probably easier for his daughter to blame everything on the divorce than to have to admit to herself that her life isn't going that well right now and that while there might be ways to change that, she doesn't know how to.

Assuming that her answer to his first question isn't "I just want to yell at you and have you listen", then he could also maybe ask "so where would you be now if it wasn't for the divorce, and how do we get you there?". Broadly though, I suspect that just being there to be ranted at and repeating that he loves her no matter what, is what will work in time.

I think it entirely depends on how the separating parents handle it.

I definitely feel that parents should follow their hearts to a certain extent. No point staying in a relationship just for the kids.

I don't know why you even bother. You say you already know what she will say, you know her expectations and that he won't be able to do a thing.

Why don't you do as so many posters have suggested and just listen to her?

Maybe you should you post on the step parenting board because as you said earlier people always see things your way on that board.

I am staggered at a your lack of introspection. You will be glad to hear that I will bow out of this thread. I really hope that your DSD will eventually gain some understanding of how she was treated from a compassionate counsellor who listens to her without prejudging her the way you do.

I am still worried that the essential point here is being missed, but I suppose that is inevitable from the way your framed your op and the way you continue to respond.

You say She will not want to be listened to and understood, she will have the expectation that he is in some way about to entertain the idea of following through what she asks. There are a million things she may come out with that he would be able to do

To not listen to someone, to not recognise their pain as real, to dismiss it as 'abnormal' and something other children would have got over by now is probably one of the cruellest things you can do to another human being.

I think - as I have said and many others have said - the problem here is that since she was 7 she has been shown that adults 'will follow their hearts' no matter what the cost to their children.

since then her mum has behaved appallingly and her dad seems to be wanting her just to get over herself and recognise how much better life is for HIM now, so why can't she just be happy for him.

This is fundamentally about making this 'her' problem, not any of the adults. After all, what did you lot do wrong? You just 'followed your hearts'! that's practically a moral imperative now it seems.

But you need to understand that everything has a price. And this is yours.

| think the job of the adults is to try and keep this child alive until she is ready and able to get professional help for the massive damage done to her by her parents. And if you aren't prepared to listen to her and support her with an open heart and without a selfish adult agenda, I am not sure she will make it.