to think most people that are aloof, are actually just shy

[prankormistake]

not everyone but say 99%

Hooray!!!! I didn't twig you had to actually do the brackets and the word. I thought you had to slide the thing physically!! What a twit I am.
Thank you so much. I can have my bedtime cocoa now and feel very happy!!!

Yay go spiders

I know I can come across as aloof/a snob. I don't mean to. I suffer from anxiety and am painfully shy. Or I was. I have got better with the help of anti depressants and Valium (the Valium being a very recent thing to help with a current situation). Once I come out of my shell I am fine but getting to that stage is something I find so difficult.

I struggle with feelings of self worth which is where it springs from and is something I have gradually been trying to build on. But for the first probably two and a half years of my current job (I've been there about 4 years now), I found making conversation with people incredibly hard. Like a previous poster said, my heart would pound. At times I couldn't talk if I tried too - my body would sort of give up on me and my brain just couldn't get the words out. It was so horrible. Since my medication I have got better but I can't be on that forever. It scares me about what will happen when I come off it.

I don't want to be this person who never says anything and can't make intelligent conversation. Give me a pen, I can write anything down. Make me use my voice, I'm convinced I sound like the most stupid person in the world and nothing I say makes any sense or has any value.

Also the person who said about asking people questions about themselves is a good technique for shy people, this is something I do as well. It's amazing how much a lot of people like to talk about themselves while I struggle talking about me. And once theve told you something you tend to find common ground and discover that you have more to add.

This thread has led me to question what 'shy' actually means? Is it the opposite of confidence?

Is it introverted?

Does it mean just a symptom of introversion? Is it social anxiety?

If someone's shy-what are they, what does shy mean?

Aloof, or just quiet?

It's okay to be quiet but I agree with the poster who said It's impolite to not offer at least a bit of something to a conversation when you're in company.

I often find people like to talk to me, and end up telling me all about themselves. I truly am very interested in people and love to hear their accounts. I'm one of those who aren't bored when someone goes on a bit.
I've often had a person reveal deep emotions and worries, simply because someone wants to listen. So if a person is 'shy' they can at least be willing to listen and show an interest. This doesn't need any skill or 'courage', just empathy.

I probably come across as aloof. That is because I have a terrible memory for names and I am lacking in confidence socially. So if I have forgotten someone's name - or forgotten to ask them and now it's too late - I feel really awkward. However I am not at all aloof if people get to know me, but I do a lot better in the presence of a 'facilitator' - someone I know already. That person doesn't even have to do anything, it just makes me more confident that they are there. My son has social anxiety and selective mutism (an anxiety condition) so I guess I have a genuine mild issue. What I don't understand is why so called 'NT' people so often jump to the least empathic conclusion - in other words, that someone is deliberately choosing to be unfriendly. I thought NT people were supposed to be naturally good at empathy but I tend to find many people extremely poor at attributing intentionality or analysing why a behaviour might be happening other than that a person is rude/mean/stupid etc.

Well done, spiders and Mini

For our purposes, this is cocoa. Cocoa all round!

A lot of people who don't know me well probably think I'm quiet and aloof.

I'm an introvert, I have low self esteem, I'm a nerd, and I have very strict boundaries (for example, I'm not the type to gossip about my personal life at work.) I do very well in social situations where we have a common interests, and/or where everyone else is new to the group and we're all on an equal footing. Once you get me started on a pet topic, I never shut up. But I really struggle with established groups that I'm not part of.

It's all a matter or perspective though, isn't it? My in-laws would say I'm distant, reserved, and don't make an effort. It's not an unwarranted criticism, but in my defense, they do spend family gatherings having loud, spirited conversations about people I've never met or sporting teams I don't follow. I've never made the effort to change the topic of conversation to one that suits me; they've never made the effort to engage me in the conversation or ask my opinion.

Part of it comes down to upbringing as well. I was conditioned as a child not to interrupt, or to raise my voice. I haven't yet trained myself out of it (still under 30). So if a large group of people who know each other well are talking about something I'm not very familiar with, I'm faced with the conviction that interrupting would be rude on top of my own awkwardness.

I think that's how most people are though. Not many people could break into a loud group of people you don't know well but know each other confidently (exception graham Norton Russell brand types!)

I was in a social situation yesterday and it actually took me ages to get to sleep afterwards. I've also been churning over how I may have upset someone and then generally fulminating at how crap I was at just communicating. Aloof is preferable!

And no I don't think it's Russell Brand and then everyone else is the same. Some people are better at stuff than others.

And I have tried and succeeded well at times in being better at not seeming shy or aloof, but it was quite an ongoing effort and at the moment I'm not doing so well and my natural awkwardness is to the fore.

One thing I don't do is judge "aloof" or "shy" people when I'm doing OK as I can identify with the feelings!

The difference between a stuck up aloof superior cow and a nice but shy person is easy.

Just a smile. No talk needed just a smile.

That's how I judge.

Agree with funny. I don't judge when I come across silent types. I don't think they are snobby, snooty or up-their-own arses. Why would I? I have walked in their shoes.

Combine my natural reticence to put myself out there with upheaval and adapting to a new life and customs [I'm a first generation migrant to the UK]- I don't feel completely in my element in a big group of people.

Don't get me wrong, I am polite, I can smile and wave and talk weather like a professional from the Met office, but it is very hard to take the first step. As a PP said, it is easier one-to-one or with a facilitator.

All I am asking is people stop judging others' silence as snobbery. In fact, I thought I was a retiring wallflower, but my neighbour is off the charts. We've seen each other for nearly 10 years now, but he never acknowledges me. I know he is not popular and his train mates call him "weird". But he is a lovely bloke, I've seen how loved up he is with his wife and how he dotes on his son. And when by chance, we met up one-to-one, he filled me in on all the gossip- what price the corner house is going for, what marathon he is training for next spring, the school fair.

What I am trying to say is, don't take it personally if someone doesn't want to engage. By all means, try to include them- it shows you are generous enough, but don't lump everyone together as rude snobs and lacking in basic social skills.

Also a lot of what SaucyJacK said resonates with me.

LittleBlueHermit: you sound just like me! I have the same "problem" and I still haven't mastered the art at 40 . How do you naturally go up to more than one person and join a conversation? I always assume that what they are talking about has bugger all to do with me. I also find that people who are standing on their own are usually on their phones etc and look busy. I usually just stand on my own like a billy no mates! Plus I feel like I have nothing of interest to say to people which prevents me from striking up conversation.
There have been some great tips on this thread, i Will definitely try harder to ask more questions from now on and worry less about trying to be interesting.

Only on MN could "shybashing" become a thing.

I think an aloof person lacks the will to converse, whereas a shy person lacks the skill to converse. I suppose if you lack the will and the skill, you could be both. But there are shy people who have the will to converse. And there are aloof people who have the skill to converse.

Hope that's clear!

Sometimes it can be difficult to differentiate between aloofness and shyness before a conversation actually gets going. Once in a conversation, I think it is possible to tell the difference between someone who is a little awkward but would like to communicate and someone who has no interest in engaging.

One clue to aloofness is that it tends to be selective. There is usually someone an aloof person will deign to have a conversation, and do so quite eloquently and smoothly - it just might not be you. A shy person might just need some encouragement to get over being self-conscious, but be far less discriminatory in who they would talk to if only they could!

Speaking as someone who has never been good at witty anecdotes, I'd just like to add that in most conversations you can get along fine being interested rather than interesting .

That is misleading Out. A shy person will also "deign" to talk to someone. It just may be someone they know very well.

Agree, Amra.

If I'm with a person or people I know very well - or feel very comfortable with - I can be chatty and outgoing and fun and even quite loud!

Some people are easy to talk to even on first meeting. I can feel totally at ease and chat away to them.

Maybe I didn't express myself very well - I didn't mean to imply that a shy person wouldn't deign to talk to someone - quite the opposite.

I'm horribly aloof. My friends marvel at how antisocial I am.
But they know I am their friend.

For me though, it's because I am so busy, and have periods of anxiety/depression. The busy is because I am studying 2 postgrad and one undergrad course simultaneously while also working in about 5 different roles and managing a small child on my own- I have a to do list that would stretch to Siberia. I also spent very many years of my life pleasing other people - and I have stopped being that walkover I once was. So actually, I am just doing what I need to do to get from A to B and through each day without disasters. If I were less aloof, yes it would be better but the demands on my time would be even greater and I would probably have a total breakdown within a couple of days! I NEED peace and quiet and I need to not be bothered sometimes, but I will always be polite, humble and smiley. It's not from a place of superiority, though I sound awful here I know - it's a genuine recognition I'm not normal with this, but also it's my own way of dealing with what I need to deal with. Sometimes however it does overlap anxiety issue, so it's not always an aloofness but can be a panicky feeling. Variable deoending on where I am. Most of time it's aloofness due to busy life chaos.

Thanks to the posters taking the time to explain themselves on here, of course no-one (I hope!) thinks all shy people are rude! I think I can tell the difference quite easily. But it does exist, some people just don't care whether they are rude or not. And some will use shyness or, as I have heard from a few people, "not having any time for more friends" for being rude. The examples I cite upthread of people refusing to shake hands and turning away when you try to introduce yourself at a social gathering - I mean, seriously? These people presumably hold down jobs, were obviously there with families and should know how to behave in social situations. There are just some people who are unpleasant and who, as adults, have never bothered to do anything about it, no matter how badly they have been brought up. Shyness is a great excuse for this but not perhaps genuine?

I must admit I also think about a man I know when I hear shyness used as an excuse for rudeness, because in his case, it was. He could be perfectly sociable and pleasant when he wanted to (often when wanting to be seen talking to a woman in front of his family), but as soon as you ceased your purpose for him, he would drop you. As in literally refusing even to say hello the next time he saw you. He would make friends and then they would get the silent treatment and be ignored so they would give up on him. He ended up losing his job because he pissed off so many people even at work. Now, this was a man who could be perfectly charming when it suited him, and as a well educated adult from a lovely family, knew perfectly well how to behave. But he wouldn't make the effort - no-one was expecting him to be the life and soul of the party, but just to be pleasant when someone else made the effort to speak to him. I don't even think he was shy, he just couldn't be bothered with other people. I can see him ending up a lonely old man.

So what I wonder is, is how much should you make an effort, if you are shy and introverted or socially anxious, if you are able to? Because most people I would say are shy in new situations, so where do you draw the line between withdrawing and not making the effort, and trying e.g. to make small talk?

I was a very shy teenager, but when I went away from home to university and then started working, I pretty much lost my shyness. I can imagine that not working or making much effort to meet other people would contribute to shyness.

People say I'm "intimidating" or "aloof". More accurate would be "deaf" so end up talking over people because I can't tell they're starting to speak, and "faceblind" - I get accosted daily at work by people I have no idea who they are and most get arsy if I ask 'who are you' so I try to get round it by asking what they are now working on (and have had "oh, you know, still CEO"...

And at least once a week I dive into a conversation and then find out later they weren't the person I thought they were.

So I end up more shy than I might be otherwise but usually blunder about OK with a bit of smiling and nodding and skipping small talk and going for interesting talk, which sometimes works well - sometimes gets mistaken for chatting people up, but there we go.

If people are willing to make a bit of eye contact and smile and say hello, I can manage, otherwise yes, I look more aloof than them even though they're the ones being aloof!

Threads like these always make me think of my Mum. She has spent her life crippled by anxiety, self consciousness, depression. She over analyzes tiny little reactions from other people and self sabotages all opportunities for friendship and personal growth. She is also unfortunate that she has a miserable expression naturally. She is often told to "cheer up love" even when she is perfectly happy just walking down the street, her eyes are slightly sad puppy dog like and her mouth turned down so her relaxed face does look sad... which has done nothing to help her demeanour. I have spent my life trying to cheerlead her into doing stuff that will build confidence or allow for friendships but the fact is only she has the power to make changes and seize the day.

I have quiet reserved friends and loud friends and everything in between sometimes normally confident and socially able people can be devastated by events in their life, and lose self confidence. I was lonely and struggled for years after I had kids because my old life was over and it was a steep learning curve remaking my life. It is not a fixed thing. Some people are extremely able and confident in a work environment but fall apart trying to order food in a restaurant. People are weird. That is ok. I don't spend much time analysing every social interaction as that is where my mum went very wrong. I can be a miserable cow in the morning and the life and sole in the evening... I am not shy but in some circumstances I am self concious and def can be reserved which is fine if you retain the ability to be at least polite and receptive. My mother has good social skills if only she knew it but it is her depression and lack of self worth that give her the abiity to suck the joy out of a social situation and has limited her relationship with her grandchildren.

The word 'shy' is over used imo, quiet, self concious or reserved are more accurate and descriptive and could all be substituted depending on the person and circumstances. Lacking in manners can describe a silent sullen person or a loud obnoxious one but is different from shy - if someone ignored a direct question or turned their back on me at a dinner party I am afraid I would find that rather humiliating and would categorise them as rude not shy. I am self concious in a social situation where I don't know people and may be quiet but I will be polite smile etc. even if my brain is panicky white noise and fails to supply me with helpful small talk. When it comes to people I admire or am impressed by fancy I am immediately transformd into a tongue tied teenager but I can still supply smiles, nods and "hmms"/ "really"s....