Page 2 | to think most people that are aloof, are actually just shy

whois · 17/12/2014 13:39

Also, if you are "self-conscious" that means you are thinking about yourself, rather than the person in front of you. Which is rather selfish if you think about it.

Shyness is the ultimate arrogance, to think other people care so much about you. Newsflash: we don't.

But that doesn't go down well with shy people on these threads!

JeanneDeMontbaston · 17/12/2014 13:44

To be fair, some people are able to be self-effacing and shy - I know someone who is very good at looking politely interested even when I happen to know she is feeling to shy to say much.

That is very different from the sort of person who simply can't be bothered.

This may be a bit mean of me, but what really gets to me is people who draw a lot of attention to themselves about their shyness - the sort of person who stands on the edge of a conversation making sad faces, and when you try to include them they insist on telling you all about how shy they are and how hard it is. I've come across a couple of those at conferences and while I felt sympathetic, I also felt as if the end result was them spoiling everyone else's conversation by being the centre of attention.

SaucyJack · 17/12/2014 13:46

"Shyness is the ultimate arrogance, to think other people care so much about you. Newsflash: we don't."

I could say the same about extroverts......

We don't care about your child's reading level, and we don't care about your Xmas plans. Go and talk at someone else; we dont exist to entertain you at the school gates.

Zame · 17/12/2014 13:47

I don't think shyness is arrogance at all.
If you're socially awkward and commit some kind of faux pas then people DO notice it, and you can imagine how shyness grows from that. Not wanting to make a mistake again.

Hatespiders · 17/12/2014 13:48

It's even worse when you're all trapped around a dinner table. If it's a buffet people can wander away and find a corner etc. I don't believe all those eating (about 20 people) were just painfully shy. I actually think they were ignorant and bloody rude! Also, my dh and I were only quietly asking a little question such as, "Have you known X (the hostess) for long?" or, "Do you live quite near, or have you had a long drive?" Surely someone who isn't morbidly introverted can reply civilly to that without it causing them too much effort?

There are several remarks one can learn if one isn't too confident. Such as, "I really like your top/earrings/skirt. Is it new?" or "Do you drive?" "Have you got any dc/pets?" "Are you watching Strictly/(any TV prog)?" "Does the cold weather bother you, or do you like the snow?" It's social skills, not rocket science.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 17/12/2014 13:48

That's not being an extrovert, that's boasting. Different.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 17/12/2014 13:50

Sorry, that was to saucy!

zame, no-one enjoys making a faux pas, do they? See ... this is the attitude I don't get. The idea that some of us are just such delicate, sensitive types, we can't get past all these unpleasant experiences. It's rude, because it implies everyone else just loves making a total twat of themselves when they say something that drops like a lead balloon.

Slowcommotion · 17/12/2014 13:54

Agree Jeanne I have a friend who says to me in private that he "doesn't like drawing attention to himself" and he never, ever, utters a word when sat at the table or in group situations. (He gets invited back regularly because his wife is really friendly.) What he doesn't seem to understand is that he is drawing even more attention to himself precisely because he sits there in stony silence, which frankly comes across as really rude, and people wonder what on earth is wrong, or what they have done to offend him!

It's false modesty though because on a one-to-one basis he monopolises the conversation completely [sigh].

KERALA1 · 17/12/2014 13:55

Due to ils silence I am forced to do the majority of the talking eventually I say something "wrong" which I probably wouldn't have said if they had helped out conversation wise

OutragedFromLeeds · 17/12/2014 13:56

'Shyness is the ultimate arrogance, to think other people care so much about you. Newsflash: we don't.'

I think the misunderstanding here is that shyness is a choice. They're not choosing to think about themselves, they can't help it.

It's like saying to someone with OCD 'how arrogant to think your light switch flicking can save lives!!'. They cannot help it. It's how their brain works.

Let's also bear in mind that being an unsympathetic pillock doesn't demonstrate fantastic social skills either.

People that think being shy is easy or that everyone is shy or that it can be easily overcome have not experienced proper shyness. It can be really hard to understand something you haven't experienced, but it's rude and unpleasant to dismiss it just because you haven't experienced it/don't understand it.

Summerisle1 · 17/12/2014 13:58

We don't care about your child's reading level, and we don't care about your Xmas plans. Go and talk at someone else; we dont exist to entertain you at the school gates.

True. But if you express yourself like this in real life, then don't blame anyone who puts you down as rude rather than shy. Unless, of course, you are genuinely uninterested in anyone else in the world. In which case, it's probably an effective means of communication.

TheChandler · 17/12/2014 13:58

Hmmn, I'm sure that many are. However I've also read that shyness can be seen as a form of selfishness in some, in that they are thinking more about themselves in any social interaction, as opposed to thinking about e.g. how comfortable you are making others feel.

And then theres anti-social p.d. - someone who admits to having this that I know, is deliberately rude (he claims there is no point in giving people false expectations by pretending to be nice) and can be incredibly nice when he wants something, such as company, but switch back to being aloof when it doesn't suit him.

Original poster

prankormistake · 17/12/2014 13:59

what about people that always have to turn the conversation onto themselves?
I find them the worse

OP posts:

whois · 17/12/2014 13:59

That's not being an extrovert, that's boasting. Different.

Or just being a terrible bore!

The vast majority of people I come across like talking to other people and are interested in others, not so much interested in talking about their children's reading level.

I don't think i know any 100% extroverts or introverts. Most people are a healthy mix of enjoying their own company at times but also enjoy going out for diner or to a Christmas drinks party or whatever.

Most people understand that conversation is like a tennis game and the ball needs to be batted backwards and forwards and not hogged by one person, or hit into the net with a one word answer!

The people I know with the best social skills make you genuinly feel they are interested in you. Shy people who can't bring themselves to ask you a question or reply to you completely fail to give that impression.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 17/12/2014 14:03

I agree with that, whois - most people are a mix.

outraged, I don't believe that's true at all. I do know people who are obviously shy by nature, but none who would behave in the ways described here, or the way you describe.

I also know a couple of people who do behave in the ways described here, and patently cannot help it. FWIW they both know they do it and worry about it, and most people try very hard not to make them feel bad.

But I don't think it's the case with the vast majority. Most are people who just don't want to try too hard, or (as TheChandler says) are only really interested in talking about themselves, so don't think about how to keep a general conversation going.

Fallingovercliffs · 17/12/2014 14:03

I just want to know who the famous actress is.

Nancy66 · 17/12/2014 14:08

me too. Kate winslet?

OutragedFromLeeds · 17/12/2014 14:08

'are only really interested in talking about themselves'

That's not being shy. Being able to read the other person is a good social skill. Telling the difference between someone who is shy and someone who only wants to talk about themselves is a useful skill. It seems a lot of people lack that skill. If you put everyone who isn't able to have a great conversation under the same umbrella, you might want to have a peek at your own social skills.

OutragedFromLeeds · 17/12/2014 14:09

'are only really interested in talking about themselves'

That's not being shy. Being able to read the other person is a good social skill. Telling the difference between someone who is shy and someone who only wants to talk about themselves is a useful skill. It seems a lot of people lack that skill. If you put everyone who isn't able to have a great conversation under the same umbrella, you might want to have a peek at your own social skills.

Fallingovercliffs · 17/12/2014 14:10

Funny Nancy that was the first name that sprang to my mind as well

JeanneDeMontbaston · 17/12/2014 14:11

Yeah, I suppose we're saying the same thing really outraged, as I don't think it's genuine shyness either.

I think, though, that many people who call themselves shy, are of this type.

I have rarely heard a truly shy person call themselves that, actually.

As I said upthread, there are obviously different types of people who struggle with conversation.

KERALA1 · 17/12/2014 14:12

Married to red haired chap in homeland. Initial hm. And no I don't think she was shy!

TheChandler · 17/12/2014 14:14

Hatespiders I don't believe all those eating (about 20 people) were just painfully shy. I actually think they were ignorant and bloody rude! Also, my dh and I were only quietly asking a little question such as, "Have you known X (the hostess) for long?" or, "Do you live quite near, or have you had a long drive?" Surely someone who isn't morbidly introverted can reply civilly to that without it causing them too much effort?

Unless its a case of crippling social anxiety/shyness (which does exist but is not that common), then being conversational in a social setting is something you should make yourself learn as an adult. I think I was about 19 when it clicked that if I was invited to something, I should make an effort to be a good guest, and that basically meant the easy task of trying to talk to people and make pleasant conversation. Its not a lot to ask...

I've been in similar situations to you three times, and they left me so utterly depressed and feeling unwelcome that they have always stuck in my mind. One was when I tried to introduce myself to my new neighbour, a local farmer, and his wife. I stuck out my hand and said "Hello, I'm Chandler" with a smile on my face. And both of them refused to shake hands with me! I was later told that they had lived in the one place all their lives and have obviously never left home to go out and work with other people and lived a pretty primitive life. Even so, I don't think shaking hands with someone is that difficult!

Another time I was at a New Year's Eve dinner with 3 friends. We were sat at a larger table, and they all turned round to look at us as we sat down. I stuck out my hand and introduced myself to the man next to me, and he turned away and completely ignored me! Not a word! It was incredibly embarrassing. My friends fared much the same, fortunately a couple who had been stuck on the end of the table, and in the end, it was such an unfriendly, awful experience at New Year, that our main topic of conversation was how unfriendly the rest of the people there were! It didn't even seem as if they all knew each other! It was very...odd. One of the oddest nights of my life and one I hope never to repeat.

I've also been ignored as a single woman going along to a dance to meet people - one experience of that is enough for me!

SaucyJack · 17/12/2014 14:15

Narcissa Malfoy!

MiniTheMinxLovesMinxPies · 17/12/2014 14:17

Yesterday I was trying to read a book in the GPs waiting room and the woman next to me would not shut up. I find that very rude. I often have a book with me so that I can avoid talking to people. I know all about her despite the fact that I have never seen her before and hopefully won't ever have to see her again. I do find some people really boring and I refuse to make the effort. Naughty really.

I have been describes as aloof. I think I am shy. I am not always shy, sometimes I'm dancing on tables without even so much as a sniff of gin. More often than not, it is something else. I can be just as happy thinking about something abstract and theoretical, or a great book or simply dreaming.

But genuinely shy people are not foisting their boring character down your throat. Taking up all air play, making your ears bleed with inane nonsense. Extroverts can be great but boring extroverts are a PITA