to think most people that are aloof, are actually just shy

[prankormistake]

not everyone but say 99%

Shyness is the ultimate arrogance

What an absolutely horrible attitude :(

QueenVick so in your opinion, mothers at the school gate only speak about laundry and cleaning ???

Actually I'll add to that- my shyness is actually to do with the conviction that people give so little of a shit about what I might have to say that it's not worth saying.

So the complete reverse. Wild insecurity, not arrogance.

Mind you, I like to think that at least I'm not one of those bores.

As a shy person I mostly hope people won't notice me. Interaction and acceptable conversation can be so so difficult. I always make an effort but God it is exhausting to go against your nature, while being alone can feel so good.

This thread is quite upsetting and confirms my worst fears - it seems that we introverts HAVE been noticed and ARE being judged

How do you ever find out how nice, or otherwise someone is, if they completely refuse to speak to you? That's the bit I don't understand.

JDM is it ok if I call you jdm? Good point but I stand by what I have said in the case of character, physiological difference, personality. We are for Freud a conglomeration of identifications, for Marx we are the total of our social relations. Our character traits and inner psychic lives are shaped by social forces. Dyslexia is a very different thing.

I have no problem with shy. I used to be incredibly shy. My SIL is very shy but she smiles a lot and asks the occasional question. She's great.

One of my BILs prefers watching TV to making any sort of conversation with family. He is able to interact he just can't be arsed. Ok so he may be a bit shy but so are a lot of us! No excuse.

slowcommotion, it seems to be what the parents at our school gates talk about all the time. I didn't say mothers, you did. I said parents as I've heard it from both mothers and fathers at the gates.

I'm not trying to generalise, so I apologise if that's how my post came across. It's just what I have observed, at our school gates, in the very few years my DD's have been attending school. It may well be different at other schools.

Introvert does not mean shy. It does not mean the same thing. An introvert is someone who find their own internal thoughts/landscape a source of energy. An extrovert is someone who finds other people a source of energy. You can be an introvert and not at all shy, just prefer to be quietly at home with one or two people or a good book. Equally, an extrovert may love the stimulus of being with other people, but just not be very good at social interaction.

Some people are just not that into you.

I do have an instinct to be chatty that I have had honed by years of experience. I am selective about who and how I talk to folk now because not everyone wants to talk or be friends. I am cool with that and although I am quite naturally extrovert I am really rubbish a small talk and tend to be a bit detached in order to avoid putting my foot in it and making social gaffes (which I am prone to). I have been burnt a few times - so now I allow for the fact that I am not going to be friends or friendly with everyone and avoid getting into awkward friendships that I/ they later want to extricate from.

I do not assume that the person who doesn't want to chat or who glares/ blanks me is just shy. I accept that they do not want to talk and though I may muse whether they may be really shy/ really don't like me or just rude... I am not going to set myself on a mission to uncover the truth. Life is too short. Lonely shy people are so because they cannot sustain relationships on some level - and a busy public environment like the playground or the pub is probably not going to be the place to overcome this. My mum is socially awkward and shy/ standoffish but she talks easily to people on the bus/ train/ post office - it is maintaining a friendship that she struggles with - and as an introvert and lonely with it she struggles. But on the face of it - if you met her on the bus - she would seem quite personable and able. Social anxiety and shyness are debilitating and people are complex.

I am not that interested in getting to know strangers - I like observing people and it is difficult to do that without distancing yourself a bit. (Not a stalker!!). My kids are still at the stage where they think strangers are going to be as interested in their musings about minecraft or whatever as I am not so I am teaching them to be more selective and appropriate - never rude.

Fair enough QueenVick and yes, I did mistakenly take your post to mean 'mothers' even though you didn't say that - apologies.

I know what you mean about school gate conversations (it's not a very good forum for it with dc dashing about and constant interruptions etc) but happen to have met four of my best friends whilst waiting for dd.

Again I think it's a question of giving things time and letting things develop. I bonded with someone (now one of my best friends) because of an initial - very standard - conversation about the weather (we were both getting soaked). But that turned in to more snatched conversations about her life back home (she is an expat) and then discovered that, funnily enough, she was (funnily enough!) a philospher before she had her dc... and so on ....and on to much more interesting things ...etc etc. Agree it is tedious when you never get beyond that initial formulaic stage though.

Theres a middle ground ... not everyone who refuses to speak is suffering from social anxiety, or is autistic/AS, etc.. Theres also a lack of making an effort. I used to be very shy, and can still revert to it at times if I don't watch myself, but I try to remind myself to make an effort, to put other people at their ease. I can see that it would be very easy to slip back into my old ways (which ceased thankfully in my early twenties/late teens) if I didn't make that effort.

And yes, small talk is boring for everyone, but the art of conversation is to use it as a sweetener for more interesting topics, failing which you go on your way, happy to have made pleasant social contact with another human being. And yes, you are unlikely to meet the Nobel peace prize or award winning chic lit author at most school gates, but even if you have listened and find the talk genuinely dull, a smile and a "Hello, how are you?" makes you, in many people's minds, a far better person than the one silently judging and trying to get away asap.

sorry - dashing - too many 'funnily enoughs' in that post!

mini - of course I don't mind. But I do disagree. I don't see it being a Freud/Marx issue (they are both reeeeeaaaaallllly dated, surely?). Social anxiety, like many other things labelled as disabilties/disorders, is difficult to tell apart from the variation of the normal spectrum. But IMO, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. You can treat social anxiety and help people. You cannot, I think, take someone refuses to make an effort, give them a pill and some counselling, and make them more inclined to take the trouble.

I'm an introvert, I don't come across as aloof mostly because I think I must look slightly panic stricken when people speak to me, people often ask if I'm ok in a concerned voice!
I am actually ok talking to people at playgroups and things but I'm a bit crap at small talk.
I grew up with a mother who never listened, never stopped talking and put me down at every opportunity. I also talk very quietly. I learnt at an early age that nobody was interested in anything I had to say and kept quiet. It still comes as a bit of a shock when people talk to me!

I do think many aloof people are probably similar.

When I was younger I was shy. But no one would have known unless I would blush. But I defiantly wouldn't of told someone I was shy as I was too shy! So I don't get people who go round saying it about themselves.

Jdm- my post was directed at those posters who have the attitude I was taking issue with. Why would I refer to the other posters with different viewpoints as part of that?

And of course I don't think I'm the only person with issues. What on earth would make you think that?

Actually for the purposes of this thread, I think debating the difference between shyness and introversion and social anxiety is irrelevant. If you're going to make judgments about people you perceive as shy, all that's relevant is that you perceive them as shy. Whether it's caused by what you consider an excusable condition is kind of irrelevant.

If I met some of the people on this thread, they would think I was shy and dismiss me as lazy or arrogant or whatever. Game over.

Shyness isn't arrogance any more than disability is laziness.

I'm pretty shy. I don't feel I have much to contribute to conversations and I get so nervous trying to get my anxious brain to think of something relevant to contribute to a social exchange that by the time I blurt it out it will likely be garbled, stuttery or delivered at a speed that no human ear could decipher. Once that has happened, it perpetuates the cycle of anxiety even further. Sometimes I have to completely disengage from the conversation and think about something else entirely (eg. looking at phone) to bring the anxiety back down to normal levels.

People have varying levels of ability in social situations, just as they do in anything else.

I don't agree with the OP. Many people are just aloof or rude.

And shyness can be overcome - I used to be painfully shy but I got over myself.

Not sure that people make blanket judgements like that Woozle though. I think most reasonable people would (hopefully) try and be encouraging and think well of an evidently very nervous/shy person who was trying to make an effort.

I think there's shyness and there are people who have social anxiety. It's extremely difficult for them to say approach a group of people, say hello and join in. It isn't about being selfish. It's a crippling mental health issue which can take years to overcome. Personally as a shy person, who usually does manage to overcome it, I find it fairly easy to recognise and it takes next to no effort to try and help them.

JDM, counselling yes, of course is very effective. I don't think pills are the answer because shyness/social anxiety, the aetiology is not a physical pathological difference in the brain. Unless of course you start to consider whether other conditions such as clinical depression present with symptoms of social anxiety. There are overlaps, correlations and possibly lots of misdiagnosis. I'm sure social anxiety could lead to depression, just as it could be a symptom of it. But real shyness and uncomplicated social anxiety do not have a physical cause, they may present with some physical symptoms though.

slowcommotion yes that is just it! the conversation never seems to get beyond that initial (sometimes, IMO, boring) stage. I could try harder to talk to the parents at the gates, but I would be very anxious about trying to steer the convo in a different direction IYSWIM. It's almost like who am I to try to move their conversation on. I feel like an intruder.

I do have one friend from the school gates however, we are both very much alike and have similar hobbies and what not. We don't see each other much at school though as her DD comes out of the other side of school whereas my eldest comes through my youngest class room to save me running around the school

I sometimes wish I could be more like others and strike up any conversation with anyone, it's just not me though.

I'm very introvert and very shy - i used to get considered aloof so made an effort and can now chit chat etc but still feel uncomfortable inside .. someone at work then told me i was intimidatingly confident! Its hard to get right if it doesnt come naturally and you know you suck at it! I will have to keep practicing i think...til it feels more natural. I just feel happier listening to/asking someone about themselves and finding out about them than i do talking about myself.