to think most people that are aloof, are actually just shy

[prankormistake]

not everyone but say 99%

kerala Married to red haired chap in homeland. Initial hm. And no I don't think she was shy!

Ah I always thought she was a bit of a cow. Never met her, just gives that impression of always judging people as to how useful they are to her.

I used to also wonder how she managed to snare him, but I've heard from a reliable source that she isn't at all shy behind closed doors, and is very friendly to all sorts.

Shyness is the ultimate arrogance?

Is my social anxiety that causes me to shake and for which I take medication arrogant too?

Fucking hell there are some ignorant people on this thread. My shyness is a mixture of introversion, probably having undiagnosed aspergers, and decade long anxiety problems. It's not because I think other people give a shit about me. So do fuck off with the 1950s hearty 'just get on with it' mentality. Always v easy for people with no issues isn't it?

Yes, that's it. Wasn't she in something very recently on telelvision. I just can't think what.

I was always taught that shyness is a feeling that you can't help, but it is how you act on it that matters. So, as others have pointed out, it's making that enormous effort to make some small talk, or at the very least not to expect everyone else to do the running, or shyness drifts into selfishness.

Actually I'll add to that- my shyness is actually to do with the conviction that people give so little of a shit about what I might have to say that it's not worth saying.

So the complete reverse. Wild insecurity, not arrogance.

Mind you, I like to think that at least I'm not one of those bores.

Shy or not, I think an adult has a certain obligation to make an effort and learn some social skills. It's just good manners to talk to those around you.

Perfectly put.

My friend's DH is 'shy' . That's what friend says anyway. The fact that he will sit there, make no effort to converse and pay more attention to his phone than myself and my DH tells me he's just rude.

But of course, he could just be shy

woozle - ah, didn't bother to read people acknowledging that some can't help it, did you?

Obviouly no one else on this thread could possibly have problems, ohno. Just you.

Sorry, I am usually hugely in sympathy with people who feel hurt by threads, even when there are lots of acknowledgements about disability, but this really rubs me up the wrong way somehow.

woozlebear I would say there is a difference between shyness and social anxiety.

"Have you known X (the hostess) for long?" or, "Do you live quite near, or have you had a long drive?" "I really like your top/earrings/skirt. Is it new?" or "Do you drive?" "Have you got any dc/pets?" "Are you watching Strictly/(any TV prog)?" "Does the cold weather bother you, or do you like the snow?" It's social skills, not rocket science.

Trouble is, these 'set piece' sort of questions are kind of dull.

Not a fan of compliments as opening gambits and, tbh, I'd be massively offended at the suggestion I might watch fucking Strictly

I'm not taking kindly to this thread because I'm probably one of those kind of people. Though only in situations like boring parties or the school gates... I'm really very chatty when out and about, in spontaneous interactions.

Mini Yesterday I was trying to read a book in the GPs waiting room and the woman next to me would not shut up.

I think you were both rude. The woman could have been anxious. Yes, it can be annoying when someone you barely know chats to you, but whats 10 or 15 minutes of your time to be polite back? Unless they are being offensive...its a GP waiting room, not a library, so people might engage with you there.

Shyness is social anxiety

Of course there's a difference between shyness and social anxiety.

There's also a difference between shyness and autistic spectrum disorders, or depression, or hearing difficulties, or sight problems, or any and all of the multiple reasons someone may struggle in a social situation.

As I said upthread, I have a couple of friends who struggle and know they struggle (and FWIW, one has severe chronic depression and the other has Asperger's). And I have depression and sometimes I don't want to get out of bed, let alone make polite conversation. A lovely friend of mine is currently struggling so much with stress and depression it is actually affecting her speech. She's awesome and I feel rotten for her.

So I really object to the idea that anyone who thinks shyness is used as an excuse to be rude, must be engaging in 1950s attitudes towards mental illness or disability.

Same as Woozlebear, some of us find it daunting to even join in a conversation. It isn't nice to hear yourself described as "weird" and "aloof" (has happened before) because of social anxiety. Strange as it may sound, I used to find myself wanting to join in conversations but unable to unless someone asked me.

Luckily it changed it my new workplace and I'm better in social situations now. Not the best, but a vast improvements in my eyes.

However I can see how others may think I was being aloof or uninterested in talking to them.

I am shy. Or was until someone pointed out that it meant everyone else had to make all the conversational effort and they probably also felt awkward in new situations, too. Being shy, for me, was a way of not having to bother very much or push myself in social situations.

Trouble is, these 'set piece' sort of questions are kind of dull.

Of course they are. They're just as dull for everyone else as for you. If you're good at being spontaneous and interesting, for sure, go for it.

But they're much better than the situation hate described upthread, where someone has gone to effort to host something, and guests won't play ball.

YABU

There are certainly many shy people for whom social situations are incredibly stressful and difficult. I have the utmost sympathy for them.

Otoh, there are plenty of people who are simply aloof, or have decided that you are not worthy of their attention for whatever reason - their parents forgot to teach them manners, or they were off the day the day they were taught that lesson at school.

TheChandler, I did speak back and so convincing was my interest that she carried on speaking. I am always polite, to the point of feeling real pain at times.

I'm just trying to make the point that, when you see someone on the fringes not joining in, it can be for many reasons, don't judge. Shy people are not selfish or boring, or arrogant. Extroverts are not always entertaining, generous and polite.

I also agree that it definitely isn't the same as shyness.

Yes op definalty. Shyness is very misunderstood.

Years ago the term for someone who had "social anxiety" was shyness.

You have the American DSM to thank for the new term, social anxiety.

This is about taking completely natural variations in character, personality and introversion/extroversion and making these variations medicalised. This is the age of science and empiricism, everything must have a bio-medical cause and a list of symptoms ripe for pharmacological intervention.

I hate, hate, hate the school gates and the drivel of conversation is appalling. I really don't care how often the parents at our gates have washed their curtains or steamed their carpets. This kind of conversation bores me to death.

Hence the reason I stand at the back of the line and hope no one talks to me. I suppose that makes me aloof or shy, or even rude, but by gawd I have better things to do with my time than listen to that kind of conversation. I Would rather converse with people who are talking about something other than cleaning/household chores!

I am much more comfortable in my own company though.

Any other place or situation I am fine, I can talk, chat and be sociable, it's just the school gates where my social skills leave me

Not sure about that, mini.

I mean, years ago, the term for a dyslexic child was often 'lazy'. I object to that, but it doesn't mean I don't believe laziness exists. It does.

IMO it is like that with things like social anxiety.

So, all you self-confessed shy people, are you ok with it if I can't be bothered to make the effort to talk to you because it's too much like hard work?

(Possible hypothetical question)

Something those opening lines are just social convention though aren't they? (Designed to break the ice and get the ball rolling, so that you can go on and talk about something more interesting. I agree they can sound formulaic but they serve a purpose.). Maybe you need to be a bit more patient, not take them so literally and then contribute yourself? And if you expect parties to be "boring" (genuine question)) then why accept the invitation in the first place? And will they get less "boring" if people can't be bothered to engage? Is it up to 'eveyrone else' to make it more interesting?

Woozlebear & Mini I don't think people are posting here about those suffering from a genuine mh issue - obviously if social anxiety is at a level requiring medication then it can't just be overcome by will alone.

It doesn't matter at all if someone is aloof, shy or introverted to me - it's not a reflection on their niceness as a person. If someone can't find small talk it doesn't mean they're boring or not very nice.