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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this is a bloody cruel thing to do to a 3 year old?

305 replies

MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 10:55

I know it's none of my business but I had to get it out somewhere!

Visited PILs yesterday. SIL and BIL were there. They have a DD who is 3 nearly 4, and another DD who is 3 months old.

We were talking about Christmas, what the kids were getting, as you do. During the course of the conversation BIL said they'd had to go back to the toyshop to return one of their DD1's toys.

Long story short, Dniece1 has been quite difficult since Dniece2 arrived. She has been getting up during the night, wanting to come into her parent's bed, throwing tantrums. To be frank, it's all behaviour that I would consider par for the course when a new sibling arrives.

Anyway, DN1 asked for two things from Father Christmas this year- crayons, and a Snow Glow Elsa. She REALLY wants that Elsa doll- we took her for a day out a week ago, and she was chattering on about it then.

SIL and BIL have decided that her 'awful behaviour' over the last few months has to stop. So they've taken the doll back to the shop, and in its place, on Christmas morning, they are going to leave a letter 'from Father Christmas', telling DN1 that she is not getting the doll, because her behaviour has made FC feel she doesn't deserve it, she has to be a good girl etc etc etc.

I know lots of parents threaten FC at this time of year, but to actually do it! Especially when the child is only 3, and the behaviour is, IMO, quite natural! Surely she needs reassured, not told she is a bad girl??

SIL and BIL aren't too happy with me, because I was so shocked when they told us, I said 'isn't that a bit extreme?' before I made myself shut up.

I don't want to drip feed, but I don't always agree with SIL and BIL's parenting techniques as it is, though obviously I don't say anything as it's none of my business. They are members of a very (imo) right wing evangelical church, and it all seems to be about 'sparing the rod and spoiling the child', submission of women etc, and they are big believers in smacking/harsh punishments for children.

OP posts:
BurnThisDiscoDown · 14/12/2014 14:43

Poor little thing, it's going to completely spoil christmas for her. My DS is 3 and a letter like that would really upset him. I'm Sad and Angry that they think this is okay.

littlejohnnydory · 14/12/2014 14:45

This has preyed on my mind since I read it this morning. Poor little girl. My five year old would be heartbroken and my nearly three year old just wouldn't understand what she had done wrong.

I wonder whether anyone in the church would speak to them about it, if not from their church then another Christian - about the importance of children growing up feeling loved and valued for who God made them to be? About striving to be like God - "slow to anger and rich in mercy" and about teaching this child about forgiveness, as Jesus came to save sinners, not perfect people? Is there anyone amongst family and friends who would have that conversation with them? Where does lying to their child in such a damaging way fit withtheir faith? The fabricated letter from Father Christmas?

I wouldn't get her the doll, much as I'd want her to have it. It wouldn't undo the damage, they're unlikely to let her keep it and you would lose contact with her completely. I might tell her school, nursery or health visitor so that they can keep an eye on her family situation though. Actually, health visitor probably best as they definitely couldn't tell the parents you had spoken to them.

MrsHathaway · 14/12/2014 14:47

Addicted I'm not sure my 3yo could associate bad behaviour from an hour ago with consequences now unless they were very logical (eg not being able to play with a particular toy because he had broken it).

There's nearly a fortnight to go until Christmas and they've written off any possibility of improvement. I strongly dislike use of FC as a disciplinary tool, but in the circumstances maybe he could write DN1 a letter saying she is going to have to try harder to get on the "nice" list but he knows she can do it, suggesting ways she can help mummy such as kissing baby, fetching nappies, putting her own shoes on, etc.

What possible incentive does she have for the next couple of weeks, and what the fuck will BIL and SIL do if she does manage to exhibit textbook behaviour for the duration however unlikely that might be, particularly given their failure to support her in doing so and they've got rid of the big ticket present?

I'm sorry for this tiny girl doing what tiny children do, reacting exactly as one might expect (to the baby and her parents) and being punished for it. As little as I like their methods, on the other hand, they are legal and reasoned and calm, so I don't think I'd say "abusive".

I think the situation is retrievable, perhaps if OP, MIL or DH could suggest a compromise such as the last-chance letter(s) or the "what could you have had" potatoes mentioned upthread.

But, fuck, she's three. She should get presents from people who love her because they love her, without the layers of conditions and guilt. Gah.

littlejohnnydory · 14/12/2014 14:52

OK, not someone from their church now that I've RTFT...another committed Christian if there is anyone who fits the bill. This doesn't sound like mainstream Christianity - 'very conservative' at best.

tinklykeys · 14/12/2014 15:05

I cried when I told DH about this thread, but really like what littlejohnnydory said. And also love EdiNburgh's suggestion, (more tears!) if you could do it without them knowing it was you, as I don't think they'd take kindly to that. And like others have said, thAt precious girl needs you in her life fir warm hugs and to show her unconditional love.

crumblebumblebee · 14/12/2014 15:16

I really don't think you can get her the doll. It will risk them cutting off contact with you and it would be a great shame to DN who needs people like you in her life. Short term, she maye be heartbroken (poor kiddo) but I just wouldn't risk it.

HollyJollyDillydolly · 14/12/2014 15:27

Very sad. Poor little girl. Can't believe she's going to wake up to a crappy note in Christmas Day :(

Original poster
MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 15:30

I honestly don't think that getting anyone to speak to them would work. They are so convinced that they are right. They seem to think that even other denominations are pretty immoral, like even your standard church. I've heard them talk about other advice given (not regarding child rearing, it was when they were trying to get a mortgage) and they ignored the advice given by the expert, and instead went with the advice a church friend gave them. The reason for this was because they couldn't be sure the mortgage guy's advice came from a religious basis, whereas the church guy was clearly in the right because he was CHURCH. And why would God want them to follow the advice of a non-Christian (or a Christian from a denomination they deem inferior)

They are seriously weird. I mean, if a doctor told them they needed treatment for a certain illness, would they refuse and go with the advice of an unqualified church friend instead

DN is well cared for apart from all this. She is always clean and well fed, they have a lovely big house and garden and DN gets to do plenty of activities. But in my opinion they are screwing her up emotionally.

OP posts:
BingBongSongEveryDamnDay · 14/12/2014 15:46

When I read your OP I wondered if this was my niece... it's clearly not, judging by additional info you've given. I'm certain I recognise the church though, or there is one very similar near me. Do they also discourage TV?

Don't get the doll. She will probably need you when she's older. DH and I are very careful not to give my family any reason to see us too much as 'unsuitable influences' & cut us off, for this exact reason. I fear for my nieces & what will happen to them if they don't conform as they grow up.

MuddlingMackem · 14/12/2014 15:47

Agree with those who say you can't get her the Snow Glow doll, that would totally antagonise them, which wouldn't be good. Sad

But you could, as another poster says, get each of them a Frozen toy. The cuddly dolls are lovely, and if DN1 got Elsa (who is big sister) and DN2 got Anna (who is little sister) that might help her see her baby sister as a friend not a rival. And you could, as someone else suggested, sat you'd bought them to tie in with her main present before they changed their minds if the parents aren't happy about it.

Catzeyess · 14/12/2014 15:49

This is so sad Sad

It sounds like they come from more of a cult than a church - and I say this as a Christian myself.

I'm not sure there is a lot you can do - although I'm sure there are books/resources out there about managing family members in a cult.

Keep being there for your niece - I'm sure she will need to know there is somewhere safe to go.

3littlefrogs · 14/12/2014 15:53

They clearly have no clue about basic child development or how to parent.
It is cruel and ignorant.

Andrewofgg · 14/12/2014 15:54

Buy her the doll. And come and tell us how her horrible parents reacted!

Aeroflotgirl · 14/12/2014 15:54

Bloody hell she is only a baby, not a stroppy 14 year old, but I could not even do that to a 14 year old. Yes but her the doll, what nasty people Angry, Sad

Aeroflotgirl · 14/12/2014 15:55

Buy I meant!

katese11 · 14/12/2014 15:56

They are seriously weird. I mean, if a doctor told them they needed treatment for a certain illness, would they refuse and go with the advice of an unqualified church friend instead*

Huge alarm bells are ringing. Friends of mine were involved in a similar church and it didn't end well

Rinoachicken · 14/12/2014 15:57

I like muddling 's idea, especially as it may help with the big sister little sister thing.

They sound horrific and I agree it sounds more like a cult than anything else.

furcoatbigknickers · 14/12/2014 15:59

Thats really cruel. Especially for what I woild consider normal behaviour. Envy

Namechangeyetagaintohide · 14/12/2014 16:00

What if the DD needs medical treatment one day ? Sad

HumptyWasPushed · 14/12/2014 16:00

Wow. Complete never-crying hardass over here sobbing like a baby at this! I know it's not a doll, but I have a Frozen '??Make Your Own Decoration' thingy that you're welcome too. Ironically, I'll also be prayig for the little mite. Xx

rumbleinthrjungle · 14/12/2014 16:02

The trouble is Andrew I know exactly where you're coming from but the parents' reaction may include making the poor child even more miserable.

First thing in any potential safeguarding situation: don't put the poor kid at any greater risk of abuse Sad

OP may be worth printing this thread out and keeping it. If this ends up being remembered for years, it may help the future teenager/adult a lot to see that a lot of people were livid on her behalf and thought it was wrong.

SuzySheepSmellsNice · 14/12/2014 16:03

They are mean and don't deserve to be parents. I have a child of the same age and it would break his little heart.

Andrewofgg · 14/12/2014 16:05

rumble You are right. Sorry.

HumptyWasPushed · 14/12/2014 16:05

Suzy so do I. DS would be inconsolable.

MrsMcColl · 14/12/2014 16:06

I was brought up in a similar church environment, with similar hardline parents. It would have made all the difference to have had an aunt (or similar loving grown-up) looking out for me and reassuring me I wasn't as awful as my parents told me I was. Poor little girl, my heart goes out to her. Hardline evangelicals can do terrible things to children.