To think that a class limit of 30 is overly restrictive For infants

[ReallyTired]

My parents have new neighbours and they have a six year old boy who is currently being forced to travel 5 miles to primary. The lea is providing transport, but there are four primaries in walking distance. The sheer distance makes hard for the little boy to socialise with classmates. His parents are hoping to get a place in a local school in year 3.

I feel that one of the primaries could go over 30 children in a class with the children melting. Use of an extra ta could help with the logistics of 31 children. Why are year 2 children so much more fragile than year 3 children?

High performing countries like Singapore often have more than 30 in a class.

I think as a general principle the disruption to either is an issue so agree it can work both ways, and action should be taken where either situation occurs. If it is the the more average child causing the issue then action should be taken to either remedy or exclude and vice versa , but with both cases there is a limit and at so e point if there is no change then either leaves the school.

Again, inclusion does not MEAN mainstream.

Quite. DS1 is experiencing in his specialist school in a way he's not been able to access in mainstream. He's in his classroom for most of the day. He's involved with school activities - right in the centre of them, rather than watching from the sidelines and bottling it at the last minute. He's eating lunch in the dining room with other staff and students.

If the school does not have the resources they should be talking to the la about it/requesting the childs statement is improved. A lot of schools find it easier to push the child out. When parents get involved the resources are found so they are available.

'there is a point at which a school does not have the resources'

That is the point at which the school should be applying for an education and health care plan so that they can get the resources.

'I believe that too often other children do not make the progress thay could do as a propritiaate amount of time is spent dealing with one or two in a class'

Then you must complain to the school as that child should be getting 'additional' support for their 'additional' needs, not be resented due to a school's preference to spend their SEN budget on glossy brochures for prospective parents.

The child in this example is not being excluded for being average or being SEN but for the behaviour.

Most children with SEN have their education impinged on by 'average children' through the pilfering of their support personnel for the purpose of coaching those 'average' children through their SATs, secretly and illegally.

Tron may I suggest you do some research on the Equality Act and specifically equality of opportunity?

'The child in this example is not being excluded for being average or being SEN but for the behaviour.'

Behaviour is no longer an acceptable category of SEN since it is now recognised that behaviour that challenges is caused by unmet need and the only available communication vehicle open to the child.

'Which child, what behaviour, what exclusion???'

You know. The one with the family problems caused by poor parenting and low morals.

YABU- the parents should have considered this. Where do you draw the line?

No he is fine getting a taxi, but apparently it is a bit inconvenient if he wants friends to come over for tea after school or something, so it would be better if everyone in the village school could budge up a bit and he could have a place.

Anybody with, I don't know, a seriously ill parent or dyslexia who might find that this meant that the teacher couldn't give them the attention they needed might like to go to another school with less physics?

(just trying to clear up the walking to school thing there).

'Anybody with, I don't know, a seriously ill parent or dyslexia who might find that this meant that the teacher couldn't give them the attention they needed might like to go to another school with less physics?'

Just perfect!

The fact remains that there are limited resources, complaining to receive support when this is due to the fact the teacher cannot give their time to the majority is not a viable option if you look at resources overall. Granted for child x or y it might be fantastic but overall it is not the way to allocate scarce resources and causes many who do not shout about their rights to loose out which surely is not morally right.

'The fact remains that there are limited resources, complaining to receive support when this is due to the fact the teacher cannot give their time to the majority is not a viable option if you look at resources overall. Granted for child x or y it might be fantastic but overall it is not the way to allocate scarce resources and causes many who do not shout about their rights to loose out which surely is not morally right.'

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here?

My child needed £23k worth of support in mainstream school but the school was unwilling to deliver this provision, despite it actually only consisting of a well trained full-time TA with a little bit of Speech and Language Therapy.

Because of that, he had to be placed in an Independent Special school costing £45k with another £12k for transport.

Resources might be limited but they are still plentiful. It is attitudes, not resources that create disablism.

If the money is allocated wisely I think you may have a point.

Who is failing to shout about their rights, Tron?