to feel cheated that you can't actually have it all?

[ChocolateOrangeInASantaHat]

Many moons ago I was educated in a fantastically positive school, where as females we were taught that we could achieve anything a male could achieve and that if we worked hard enough and planned well enough, we could 'have it all' in life.

So now, with my collection of letters after my name, respectable job, 2 usually well-behaved children, lovely husband and a multitude of lists to keep life running smoothly, I'm slowly realising that it doesn't matter how hard I work or how meticulously I plan, unless I steal a bloody tardis I still can't have it all.

Feeling particularly bitter as was up all night with poorly child, who I then left with a relative to not miss work today (=feeling like rubbish mother) and then as I'd had no sleep I was not very productive at work (=also feeling like rubbish employee). Since others at my level are generally male and tend to have stay at home wives, this kind of feeling inadequate at both home and work doesn't tend to occur for them.

Honestly feeling like I should advise daughter to either:
a) marry rich man, get good prenup and focus on children/household or
b) be career driven and marry man who is happy to stay at home and focus on children/household.

AIBU to feel cheated that I can't 'have it all'? (NB in case lost in my sleep-deprivedness this is a --partially- tongue-in-cheek AIBU)

I want want men accept unthinkingly as their right; to have a meaningful career and well nurtured children. The answer to the problem if women doing it all CANT be " give up and be a sahm". If someone said that to a dad who wanted a career and kids, people would think that was very extreme.

One bad day doesn't mean you don't have it all. I wasn't very well at work the other day but I don't think I'm a rubbish employee or that I haven't got a good career.

Desmond Morris (anthropologist) said "all children need a primary carer but that doesn't have to be a woman" ( i paraphrase). I do notice on MN a lot of women saying " dh earns 3 times what I do" or " but where can I find a job in school hours" and there does seem to be an acceptance that after dc, for the woman, life and work will reduce, but not the man, because he is the earner. Of course money isn't everything, but being all you can be, being able to at least try is important. My sister is the high earner in her household, and she and her dh both work reduced hours. She wouldn't have considered being the one to compromise if he didn't, and I wouldn't consider having another dc with a man who didn't assume that he would have to comprise as well as me. Or even instead of me

Me taking the back seat happened that way due to DH being 4 years older than me and him starting work aged 17. Right now he has been in the workplace for more than 15 years while I have been working for 8 years. I took time out to take my degree, I have been laid off 3 times in 5 years plus I took time off to have children. It is hardly surprising that I earn less than DH however in the here and now it is damn hard to argue that DH should not go to Dallas next week so I can attend an important meeting in person rather than call in.

At the end of the day my job has to pay for itself and right now it doesn't if I am on a 75% schedule. If I had 15 years of experience instead of 8 I would be earning much more and close to being on par with DH.

I don't think you can have it all.
I do think both partners can work and one doesn't neccrssarily have to be at home full time. But I do think one partners career has to take a back seat and be more of a job than a career. To give both headspace and time to that person - so that they can be there for the kids.
I don't care if that's an unpopular view, kids - of any age - need someone to reliably be there for them.

I think there's a certain personality type who can seemingly have it all - I know a very high flying couple who both work f/t, regularly until 11 at night and then again at 5 in the morning for an hour or two before the kids get up. Nanny has kids from 7-6 and often later/earlier. They also manage to fit in gym sessions, loads of social occasions, regular work away, kids are lovely.

They are clearly very driven, focused and organised and make it work. Whether they're happy though...?

Aren't we programmed hormonally to care? Then when the menopause hits we stop caring. It's great. I don't give a fuck anymore

I think we are also programmed socially by how our parents behaved. If you DF was a hands on up-during- the night parent you will expect that of your DH.

Who would get up constantly at night to small DCs if there was someone who believed they were better at it to do it for you.

I feel like I have it all, even though we are poor and I am a sahm. Because being at home with my children is what makes me happy.

Stainless is exactly right. Men and women can have children and work full time perfectly well, but some people are perfectionists who constantly feel they are "not good enough" in all kinds of ways. that is a psychological problem. It is not normality and the solution is to learn that we do our child rearing and work as well as we can, look on the bright side and thus live a balanced life.

I just regard having at all as a modern term used to keep women down, something never applied to men so any debate about the topic tends to be driven from sexism.

It is perfectly easy to have children and work full time whatever your sex particularly if you don't tolerate unfairness at home.

Of course having small children whether you work or not is always exhausting whether you are male or female. However as a man or woman that is not usually a reason to give up your career if you need the money or want to carry on with it and have an option of spending even more time at home.

I never volunteered for anything at school - I was too busy. I never felt guilty about that. I did go to school plays, watched sports matches (not all of them!) and did my share of party pick ups and drop offs. I made costumes for plays because I found it enjoyable not stressful, I went to parents evenings. I always said "no" when it simply wasn't possible to do any of the above, my dc knew that it was because I couldn't rather than didn't want to. I didn't feel guilty about that either.

Life is full of choices which preclude each other, we all have "paths not taken" - we just have to accept that. I would not have been able to cope either as a permanent SAHM or with using total wrap around child care so that I could carry on working while my children were tiny. My choices involved giving up some things in order to have others, and at different points in my life priorities changed. I do know that I am eternally grateful to my younger self for making sure I remained employable in a career I love. The late nights studying after the dc were in bed were definitely worth it because when exH went off with the OW I had no financial worries, I can support myself.

StainlessSteel
I know too many women who feel that they have to hold down a job, bake for the cake sale, have an immaculate house, chair the PTA, help with assisted reading at the school, keep fit, look fashionable, and STILL beat themselves up over not being with their children 24/7.

That's a description of a perfectionist; somebody trying to achieve the impossible. I think it's a personality thing rather than based on gender/sex. Like Ioiner45, I am a pragmatist and would never attempt to juggle that list or feel guilty about things that have to be comprised upon.

compromised not comprised

I've recently gone back to work FT after 7 years of PT work. I have a demanding management role and actually feel much calmer and relaxed now I have adequate time to do my job properly.

My DH used to do school pick up a couple of times a year if that, due to his FT job and the idea that he would not be allowed any flexibility in his hours. Surprisingly, when push has come to shove, his employer has been absolutely fine with him doing school pick up once or twice a week and doing a bit of work from home to make time up.

And after years of me thinking i was the only one who would ever remember dinner money, football kit, brownies etc, it turns out my DH actually has a brain that retains that stuff went it needs to. Now he writes notes to remind himself about school trips rather than expecting me to email him to let him know when to book time off for school events.

Its been a revelation!

Yep, that's me. Lacking in confidence and walked all over at home.

Talk about jumping to conclusions.

Yes we so we can solve women's problems on the thread through thinking around the issue.

1. If you had very short maternity leaves as i did then the wife is never better than the husband with the child, no sexist patterns, no assumption men cannot clean or cook or change the baby. He is and can be as good if not better than you are with children and the home and you are not a domestic god who surpassess all with your domestic skills. Anyone could do it just as well. That doesn't matter - let someone else be great at dusting while you get to serve on that board. let someone else be the domestic God.

1. Be good enough. All surveys show women and men who are pragmatists are psychologically happy. I have always been content with how I am as a mother and worker. I don't mean go round showing off all the time (although more women should and fewer men) but do realise you are fine at what you do. Don't worry. Don't sweat it. Just get on with it

3,. If you work full time do less at home. Worked fine for me. My children genuinely laughed that they usually had the worst school costume which their father or I made. A black plastic bag was the joke - that was the costume. It was a mark of pride they had two working parents who did not have time for any cakes required at school and the like. That was something from which we took pleasure rather than shame. It showed we were fine, better even , surperior and yet you get women upset they aren't doing howe baking! That just shows it's all about how you see things in your mind rather than anything else.

1. Accept other people - like nannies or childminders or cleaners or husbands so thing differently from you and be humble enough accept different can even be better. You are not necessarily the best with your child. Love is not a competition. It is infinite and can be shared. Don't hog it.

Errr that's great for you Greengrow not necessarily for everybody else.Yes of course dads are just as good but many mums simply want to be with their dc more.Stands to reason since we carry them for 9 months.Your feelings don't speak for everybody.

Ditto what your family think is our ok.Our family can't say we love having 2x wp,actually we're pretty much on our knees and appreciate the days with a sahp now more than we should have done at the time.

My dc wouldn't appreciate bin bag costumes,sorry.I didn't enjoy not being snuggled up with my dc on their sick days this term or piling them with sick buckets into the car.It was shite.They want us there at events,they want to spend time with us and don't want outsourcing which like most working families is fortunate as we couldn't afford it even if we did want it.We are therefore running round like headless chickens,spending far too little time together and the time we are together I s packed with chores.Roll on the holidays!

Periods with a sahp and more scope for part time hours are highly favourable for family well being imvho and it's shit that it isn't easier to have both.

You can have it all but only in a partnership. At one time our childcare was more than my wages but if I quit i would have lost 3 years and been highly unlikely to get a job later at the same level. Living, having schools and working in the same place or nearby helps.

People say to me that I am lucky to have the career that I have. No I was hardworking and made sacrifices (we both did). We have always shared housework, cooking, childcare equally between us. We co-ordinate diaries so that there will always be 1 at home at night (children now at uni- so for the dog!). At different times we had more high pressure jobs and when he had one with travel I opted for a more local one and visa versa (this was never planned just seemed to flow).

I didnt' go to every sports day or school play (usually 1 of us did) For about 4 years we had local family which helped. We always had blended childcare to give flexibility.

You can have a career if you want one. Each choice- home or work is valid.

Green grow. .... I bet you kick ass in the board room.

As a mother, perhaps less so. I suspect that you think the same,and don't give a damn about it.

You say that we should accept that "you are not necessarily the best for your child". Nope, never going to happen for me and majority of mothers. Ask our children who they think is best for them and who they want.

You say your children revelled I the fact that you were two full time working parents and that they spent a great deal of time with their nannies. Yet they felt superior to those children who had mothers waiting for them at the school gate. I don't know your children obviously, but I wonder if that is genuinely how they feel. It will be interesting to see how they decide to approach parenthood.

After 20 odd years as a working parent, I know I can't have it all. What has (kind of ) worked for me is to outsource everything I can that isn't directly to do with the DCs, to pay for very good child care and to focus on the DCs when not at work.

The trade offs are financial ( I spend a lot of my income on buying services as I would really resent using my weekends to do domestic stuff that I could easily outsource to someone who would do it far better than me, instead of spending time with my DCs) and social (unless I am going to a work related event, or to something they don't want to go to, I don't often go out without my DCs).

Oh, and I think greenstone has it spot on.

Sigh. That was was greengrow not greenstone (autocorrect fail).

I agree totally with her approach. My longest maternity leave was 6 weeks, I have never baked a cake for school or made a costume and my DCs have been just fine.

There are as many ways of being a parent as there are parents - but what i have found is it is best to play to your strengths, rather than try and be something you are not.

to go back to the OP, she's pissed off that "as females we were taught that we could achieve anything a male could achieve". But that's not wrong. We can. Of course, if we want to have a good career, chances are that we cannot also be a SAHM for many years and then work part time flexible school hours only jobs, being there for every bake sale.
But men can't do that either.