Attempted rape at university (sensitive)

[CanadianPacific]

Due to the very sensitive nature of this post I have name-changed (sorry) but I really need to chat this through. I'm not sure whether AIBU is actually the right place for this either but I am hoping for traffic.

My daughter is in her first year at a London University. She is in uni accommodation with 100's of others (all split between several buildings on same campus).

On her floor there are approx. 18 students with a male/female split.

They all seem like a very friendly and sociable bunch with no real issues until recently.

One of the male students has become more and more aggressive towards the female students and there have been a lot of misogynistic comments etc. A few of the female students have said that they feel very uncomfortable around him and some of the male students have approached him about his behaviour.

Over the past few weeks however, things have escalated. He accompanied one girl back to her room and attempted to rape her. She managed to defend herself and get him off and he left.

Other girls have reported that he would try to escort them back to their rooms and he seemed to pick out those that had been drinking heavily.

When challenged, he became very aggressive.

This has now been reported to the college and they seem to have acted very quickly. All of the students involved were asked to provide written statements (including my DD and several male students who have witnessed some of his behaviour).

He has been spoken to by the staff and tomorrow he will be moved out of this accommodation into a nearby block (on the same campus).

The girl who he attempted to rape has received a lot of support but has been told by the college that if she reports the attempted rape to the police and he is subsequently found 'not guilty' (which is likely as it's her word against his) then she could find herself expelled from the university.

So she has decided not to report it

I'm sure that the college have/are doing all they can but I feel so uneasy about this.

I think it's appalling that she is being threatened with expulsion.

He is now going to be moved into a new accommodation block with female students who no doubt, will be unaware of his reputation.

My DD and the other female students do not feel safe

I'm not really sure what I am asking here, I just feel very uncomfortable with the outcome but genuinely don't know what else the college can do.

Given the number of people who have reported his behaviour, don't they have enough to expel him and deport him back to his home country?

Your calm and reasoned thoughts please x

Yep, I agree with legal advice. No one is going to write a letter that stupid back to a solicitor about expelling a girl for reporting sexually assault to the police.

I would bet real money that one legal notice and the girl will be getting swift call to the office about with a "Oh honey, we didn't mean that, of course report it! We're here for you".

CanadianPacific I am so sorry this is happening. I think the students (or parents) should speak to the National Union of Students and the police. The idea a student may wish to report an attempted rape and is told if the person is not found guilty they will be expelled is appalling and I would hope it is illegal, it is intimidation (IMHO).

If enough students complain about this and express that they feel unsafe, then the university should do something about this.

You said in your opening post "I'm sure that the college have/are doing all they can but I feel so uneasy about this."

I'm afraid I cannot agree because if the university policy is to expel people who report attempted rape but where the alleged assailant is found not guilty, then they are standing in the way of justice. Because this woman is not wanting to go to the police for this reason.

The university have effectively deterred her from seeking justice.

If I were in this position I would want to get this information in writing. And frankly if this issue is so well known about and not resolved I would be tempted to leave this university!

Students pay for their education, they are affectively the customer. Imagine if you were staying in a hotel or rented accommodation and something happened to you and the landlord said, if you report this and the alleged attacker is not found guilty you will be evicted, you would probably say well I will move anyway. If enough people feel like this they will have to re-think this misogynistic policy.

And yes, those new students in the new block will not know about the past and someone else may sadly not be able to escape from a possible future attack.

Please do let us know what happens.

Very angry on your behalf and most of all on behalf of this woman, your daughter and all those at risk at the university.

If she'd been robbed or punched, would they be telling her not to report in case he launched a claim for harassment?

It seems only for rape is the victim doubted so much.

Hi CanadianPacific - I've PMed you and will get back to you tomorrow with some follow-up advice. Hope your DD isn't feeling too shaken up by this. I am 99.9% certain some wires have got crossed - it would be a PR minefield of truly epic proportions for a university to advise an assault victim against going to the police - especially in the current climate when UK universities are desperately worried about the rise of rape culture/lad culture on campus.

I came into contact through work with a man I felt uncomfortable with and who made inappropriate suggestions to me. I told my boss who dismissed my concerns and he continued to work. Years later I saw his mugshot on the internet. He turned out to be a prolific sex offender who had committed many rapes. If my concerns had been listened to it many have stopped some of the offences.

I second the advice of going to the Students' Union. Start with the Women's Officer or Legal Adviser.

I wonder if the conversation got a bit mangled. It may have been meant to go like this:

'You are entitled to go to the police. However, a factor you may want to consider in deciding whether to do that is that if this goes to trial and he is found Not Guilty, he may then file a complaint against you with the university for harassment. There is then a theoretical possibility that you could face sanctions for making an unfounded allegation against him, which in the worst case could result in your expulsion.'

I am no expert in these matters, but given that there are several corroborating statements about his behaviour, I can't see that the male student could possibly succeed in any such complaint.

However, some bureaucrats would feel obliged to present every possibility in a case like this in a completely detached way, with common sense thrown out of the window and no account taken at all of the probabilities of the situation.

Very nasty situation. I hope it gets sorted out promptly and sensibly. I wouldn't go to the press until you've exhausted every avenue within the university itself.

If the case goes to trial and he is found not guilty and then the CPS charge her with perjury and she is found guilty of that (so unlikely it shouldn't even be a factor) then yes, I would agree that there could be a small possibility of her being accused of harassment.

However, this is not something that should ever stop the victim of any crime going to the police. The university has massively failed in its duty to safeguard its students and whoever is responsible for saying the bollocks about harassment to a victim of attempted rape should be sacked. No question.

I am massively shocked by this. If I were you I'd be encouraging my daughter to go to the police and tell them what happened to her, given he attempted to assault her. If they can see a pattern of behaviour, and if her friend feels she s not alone in reporting him, then there's a chance of a prosecution.

She needs to report this to the police ASAP. She should also let the police know that the university threatened her with expulsion if she reports and is found not guilty. I'm sure that's a form of witness intimidation?

A solicitors letter will shut them up very quickly, they can't punish a student for reporting a crime and there are plenty of witnesses to his behaviour so there's not a chance in hell he could go after her for harassment. They are opening themselves up to a huge lawsuit when the next attack results in rape.

She needs to send that solicitors letter to the very top.

There is also evidence from others of his harassing other female students. He sounds like a blooming timebomb, what do they want to happen something nasty then they will act. It us shocking he has put in another block with female students. His behaviour is very concerning, him harassing female students is a crime in itself, they should go to the Police, as well as the lady he attempted to rape!

If this person was harassing and doing his behaviour in a orivate flats, the victims of his harassment have every right to report him to the Police, same here at uni, the student being harassed and followed by this man should go to the police, it's a crime. The uni are appeasing him and placing him in a new block where there are other female students

Shame them on Twitter too. All crimes should be reported to the Police

I'm bit concerned that more time will be spent talking to the University. Yes, keep them involved but this needs to go to the police now.

Regardless of whether the comment was made with the best of intentions, it's preventing a young woman from reporting a crime.

And yes the fact they've put him in another block with unaware women is outrageous.

Reminds me of being at uni - the handyman in our halls kept breaking into the women's bathrooms trying to catch women naked. So what did they do? Just moved him along to the boys' hall next door where he could still get into the women's hall. He didn't lose his job or anything. We were all so young at the time, we assumed the uni knew what it was doing. Pretty shocking really.

If they scare the girl into not reporting it to the police and he goes on to attack someone else the university will be in a much worse pr position than if she reports it now.

I wonder if the university has considered the risk of them being sued for damages in civil law if they were found to have discouraged someone from reporting a crime, by another person who then suffered a similar sort of crime?

Anyway, I agree reports of the message the university gave may have become mangled. Which is why the police, whose job it is to examine evidence, should be involved in any allegation of serious crime.

I would encourage your dd to report to the Police if he does harass or follow her, and encourage her friends to do so. I would also encourage her to phone the Police or go to them, and tell them her concerns. His behaviour sounds extremely concerning, and University are not taking it as seriously as they should.

I think it would be very difficult to get a harassment complaint off the ground if the woman complained to police. The uni's own actions show the complaint is not groundless-they've taken it seriously, investigated, received statements from others about his worrying behaviour and moved him to another hall.

This sounds like intimidation to get her not to report, so they can gloss the whole thing and continue receiving his fees. it is absolutely shameful. The woman should take her own advice from police or solicitors, and get the Student Union involved, if she wishes.

Oh, and the male student could not sue her for perjury or harassment based on the police report. You can't be sued for reporting a crime to police, except in a malicious prosecution case. Malicious prosecution is hard to prove, hence there aren't many cases.

Bear in mind what was said to the woman may be coming from someone uninformed, rather than the Uni's lawyers. Because if they expelled her for harassment based on reporting to police, she could sue them. And she'd win.

Could she press for a 'sexual assault' instead?

She should be able to talk to the welfare officers at ULU as well as within the college. Do bear in mind that they are usually sabs & often might only be 20/21 themselves. It may be that they were just mentioning precedent that they had heard of (from the US, perhaps) rather than making an actual recommendation.

I'd take it to the police, but keep the uni informed.

breakingdad she can't choose what crime she reports as the police will charge with the most appropriate offence once the crime is reported and evidence gathered (I'm in Scotland, so believe cps in England have an input as to what charge is preferred)?

Allmimsy expresses it much better than I did.

Well if something happens to another female and next time it goes further than an "attempt" I would think the University would be potentially liable for having knowledge beforehand that he was a threat and doing nothing - or in fact covering it up.

Rain that's why he should be reported to the police, so that the Police who are outside the Uni can deal with it.

update

Have managed to find out some more information.

This all seems to have been dealt with by the accommodation team. It was first reported to the night warden and then the rest of the accommodation team took over. As far as I know, they have taken it upon themselves to deal with it and not at any point has it been passed on to anyone higher up (at least not that we can see)

In one of the interviews, the girl that was attacked was told to put it down to "cultural differences" because when interviewed, this boy was very dismissive and said that "if women don't want to be raped then they will prevent it" or words to that effect.

The accommodation team made it clear that they didn't agree with his sentiments (no shit!) but kept making statements along the line of 'not trying to agree with what he did, but ....."

The girl in question has not been given the chance to talk or make a statement with just a female only presence. There has always been at least one male member of staff there.

The comment about her facing potential expulsion is true in that she was told this by a warden

This student also has 'previous', he was kicked off another course at another uni for 'something similar' although we don't know what/where/when.

The accommodation team have not insisted that the male student be moved to another accommodation block, they gave him a choice however and he said that he wanted to. At this moment in time however he is still there (at least his stuff is still in kitchen and communal areas)

So this is the latest update and it's more depressing than ever.

I have copied this thread and emailed it to my daughter and she has sat with her flatmate and they have read it together. They were worried that the thread wouldn't be nice or that it might be critical of them so I had to reassure them that it's definitely not the case.

I think they have been made to feel that they are being a pain

Good grief. I can't believe the university is defending this dangerous man! According to him there's really no such thing as rape because if a woman doesn't successfully fight you off, it means she wants it?

Cultural differences, my arse. Rape culture, more like. Definitely take this to the police. Please. Before he hurts another woman.